[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics

These natives of New Guinea highlands, possess a Stone Age culture, hardly contacted by Western Civilization, and are ignorant of wristwatches, soft drinks and frozen food. But they knew about Apollo 11. They knew men had walked on the Moon. And asked "who walks on the Moon now?"



There is a wonderful pro apologia by Carl Sagan for manned space exploration and its importance for all of us, and gives a thought provoking explanation on why we have turned from the stars and turned inward.




Carl Sagan in reflections about what would the last Shuttle launch (he knew the program would eventually end at the time of this video production) made the case that the optimism raised by space exploration, the ability to solve hard technological issues, the accomplishment of long term goals that make us focus on being humans is more than important than being just "American" or "British" or "Tongan" or "Chinese" and the exuberance of discovery radiates out from the scientists to society at large, allowing us to focus on issues in other fields that aren't related to space exploration. A renewed sense in science to fundamentally change a generation like the race to the Moon did in the 1960s.



While Newt's march for the Republican nomination has starts and stops, his campaign in Florida (where many former NASA and contractors from the Shuttle program are without work) has drawn new attention to some of Newt's goals, with a fresh round of (to me) very puzzling ridicule. I'm not a Republican. I'm not a conservative. But I believe in giving the devil his due, and of all the candidates, Newt seems to be the only one that gets Ronald Reagan's basic understanding of American's optimism. While all the Republican candidates seem to be trying to grab Ronald Reagan's mantle, they just come across like a bunch of dour school teachers smacking their pupils on the knuckles with a ruler, Newt at a basic level fundamentally understands the optimism of a big project like space exploration (more so than Obama)

Mitt Romney (along with quite a few moderates and liberals and a lot of conservatives) have openly mocked Newt's plan for a lunar base and several space stations because it's unaffordable. But the New York Times looked at this specific issue, and suggests the ridicule is unwarranted.


Could the United States establish a moon colony and develop a new propulsion system for going to Mars? All within eight years of a Newt Gingrich presidency, as Mr. Gingrich promised this week? The answers seem to be technologically yes, economically iffy and politically very difficult. Not surprisingly, at a debate on Thursday, Mr. Gingrich’s Republican opponents lambasted a moon colony as a loony, budget-busting idea in a time of fiscal austerity. Mitt Romney said he thought a moon base would cost hundred of billions of dollars or more. “I’d rather be rebuilding housing here in the U.S.,” he said. Ron Paul quipped, “I think we maybe should send some politicians up there.”


In one of his more eloquent moments, Newt defended his idea and made a compelling case for American interests in space exploration.



NASA in a recent study has concluded that smaller rockets that are available today (instead of the proposed newly designed rockets in President Bush's ambitious "Constellation Program") would be much cheaper and allow Americans to return to the Moon in less than ten years.


But Mr. Gingrich talked of overturning the status quo at NASA, pushing to work faster, to accept greater risks and let private companies take the lead role. “It’s not something that should be mocked or should be seen as a remote possibility,” said Michael Gold, director of the Washington office of Bigelow Aerospace, a private space company. “The reason this is both possible and economically viable is that many of the systems and technology, if not all, already exist.” Bigelow, using technology licensed from NASA, has plans to launch two inflatable space stations, capable of housing 36 people, and the same technology could be scaled up to provide living quarters on the moon.


While the New York Time's article says President Obama fundamentally has the same vision for NASA as Gingrich, it's believed he's more willing to invest political capital to see his vision brought to pass because of his fundamental beliefs in space exploration, unlike the President.

****Bonus Round***
This is Newsweek's cover for the Monday issue (oh dear!):

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Date: 28/1/12 18:18 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
You dream about Newt? Disturbing.
Image
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From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 28/1/12 19:46 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] soliloquy76.livejournal.com - Date: 28/1/12 21:01 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 28/1/12 18:18 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
He's the Neil deGrasse Tyson of US politics! He fires me up, yooo!
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Date: 28/1/12 18:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soliloquy76.livejournal.com
The problem here is that he cannot make his case for this in a sound byte. As a conservative, he knows that this is going to cause problems for him. He should also know that his focus, if he wants to win, should be on issues that he can get conservative support for in concise and convincing sound bytes. I don't know that he can do that in this case. Maybe if/when he gets the primary win, but not now.

On a broader note, this is a good reason why government investment in certain technologies is a good idea. Without it, we wouldn't have the transistor, the Internet, satellite technology, etc. Sure, they might have come along eventually, but the world would be a very different place technologically than it is now. Even conservatives should know from an economic standpoint that the multiplier effect of these innovations paid for themselves many times over, and many of them could not have happened any other way.

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Date: 28/1/12 19:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
Neil DeGrasse Tyson shoots down Gingrichs moon base. (http://gizmodo.com/5880084/neil-degrasse-tyson-shoots-down-gingrichs-moon-base)

Also

"The answers seem to be technologically yes"

I'd like to know how they plan to counter the physical effects of gamma rays and no gravity for a year when they shoot some poor soul in orbit. Can't do it without extreme sickness at our present technology. Not unlikely that we'd kill someone.



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Date: 28/1/12 19:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
"By the mid-2030s, I believe we can send humans to orbit Mars and return them safely to Earth. And a landing on Mars will follow. And I expect to be around to see it. - Obama.

Far. More. Realistic.

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Date: 28/1/12 19:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ford-prefect42.livejournal.com
Cool with that, so long as they're volunteers and know the risks.

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Date: 28/1/12 22:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] geezer-also.livejournal.com
Well no one has turned into the Thing or Mr Fantastic yet, altho girls seem to get more invisible every year...or maybe I just need glasses.

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Date: 29/1/12 04:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
The standard crew rotation for the ISS is 180 days, we know that people can last at least that long without permenantly ill effects.

Artificial gravity is easy, all you need is some spin.

As for the radiation issue the Soviets hit upon a solution durring thier Salyut program back in the 70s. Water is a very effective radiation sheild for its mass so immerse the crew compartment in water. A cross section of the compart would look something like a vaccule thermos only with water where the nothing should be, and people where the coffee usually goes.

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Date: 28/1/12 19:40 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
I would love to have a moon base and some space stations, but I make fun of Newt for saying it because he seems like it's the only thing he has going for him, which isn't enough of a reason to elect him.

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Date: 28/1/12 19:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
I do appreciate Newt bringing up the issue, but his ideas are horrible as are his nationalistic capitalistic reasonings.

For. All. Mankind.
Edited Date: 28/1/12 19:43 (UTC)

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Date: 28/1/12 20:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
As about half of our readers argue, government can't do anything right. So I propose leaving space exploration, bases on the moon, martian mining colonies, etc. to private enterprise.

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Date: 28/1/12 20:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Get on board of the Coca Cola spaceship!

Image

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Date: 28/1/12 22:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] geezer-also.livejournal.com
It worked for Harriman...oh wait ;)

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Date: 28/1/12 20:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] udoswald.livejournal.com
So in Newt's mind it's perfectly ok to blow billions of dollars into space in order to create a monument to his greatness on the Moon but it's horrible to suggest feeding and providing healthcare for the poor? I'm sorry but that's just stupid. I'm all for space exploration but it shouldn't come instead of, or at the expense of, things we need on Earth.

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Date: 28/1/12 20:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
In Newt's mind, a 50 percent failure rate for commercial satellite launches is not an example of a series of failures.

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Date: 28/1/12 20:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
I think the problematic idea is that if we just get NASA out of the way, then corporations could go ahead and make money and succeed and push the boundaries. Well, no, NASA is a six billion dollar midget in the government. NASA isn't holding anything back. Slamming NASA as a series of failures is just offensive and dishonest. Just getting rid of NASA is not going to ipso facto launch a new era of space exploration.

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Date: 28/1/12 20:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
All the private companies, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon etc. have been sucking at the tit of NASA - which is a defense project - and now Newt encourages them to bite the hand that feeds them. The hand that they profit from protecting.

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Date: 28/1/12 21:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com
We've been to the Moon.

There's nothing there.

If we're going to borrow a couple hundred billion more dollars from the Chinese and likely kill a few astronauts I'd rather do it going to Mars or the Asteroid Belt.

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Date: 28/1/12 22:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
In addition to optimism, this sort of space program requires vision, perseverance, hard work and unity. The prevailing climate of cynicism, fear mongering and disunity is the reason for the ridicule.

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Date: 28/1/12 23:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoasksfinds.livejournal.com
the day my government runs a surplus i am on board. until then, its just a fantasy.

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Date: 29/1/12 09:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
It's not that you can't afford it. It's that you've chosen not to afford it.

The most recent bank bail-out exceeded NASA's budget for the last 50 years combined.


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Date: 29/1/12 00:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
This requires us to have something other than Russia's goodwill to send our people into space, first.....and I can't see Gingrich letting the Feds do this, and private industry will just come up with the space version of the F-35.

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Date: 29/1/12 04:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
What makes yo say that

Both SpaceX's Dragon and Sierra Nevada's Dream-Chaser are on track despite having the funding for thier NASA grants slashed. Likewise Virgin and X-Core are looking to do suborbital flights by 2013, and there've been some promising developement with Reaction's Hypersonic test vehicle.

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Date: 29/1/12 03:06 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kardashev.livejournal.com
"...to accept greater risks and let private companies take the lead role."

This is one of the few good ideas I've heard come out of a politician in quite some time. Let private companies take the risk so we can finally get orbital factories that will make hybrid materials like plastisteel for us. It'll be the biggest technological advancement since we harnessed fire.
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Date: 30/1/12 02:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] star-white.livejournal.com
E tu Newt?

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