[identity profile] kinvore.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/21/1056826/-Apple-and-Unbridled-Capitalism?via=spotlight

Believe it or not, despite being an Arch Liberal TM I seldom read Daily Kos, and when someone directs me to a story there I take it with a huge grain of salt. However I've heard this story from various sources so it's pretty much verified.

Foxconn manufactures many of the nifty electronics we use today, including the Kindle, iPad, iPhone, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 and Wii. They keep their workers in compounds behind guards with automatic weapons. They are crammed 8 to a room. They work long hours for a pittance, and the pressure is taking its toll. Their work force has had numerous suicide attempts, many of which have succeeded.

Foxconn's solutions so far have been anything but exemplary. They've placed bars in windows and nets between buildings to keep people from jumping. They've had their employees sign "no suicide" pledges. They keep trying to address the symptom without even bothering with the cause.

What I find most ironic is if the workers try to form a union they'll receive a 12 year prison sentence. That's right, in Communist China they can't form a union.

You can't keep treating people this way and not expect some sort of reaction. This is the true face of class warfare, my friends. To me this is the inevitable result of unbridled capitalism, and why we need to keep regulations in place and to protect worker's rights. These people in China and elsewhere are paying a heavy price so that you can have a cheap smart phone.

(BTW if this was already discussed then I apologize, as you may or may not know I haven't been active lately.)
From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory



It will fuck you up.

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Date: 22/1/12 19:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
+1. Just heard it yesterday.

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Date: 22/1/12 21:18 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com
so he goes to china to meet the people who make his gismo....hmmm

i guess that's cool. i mean, we get to know our mechanics, doctors, bread-man, postman/woman, etc.....why not our textile workers and mac laborers too?

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Date: 22/1/12 15:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
I remember hearing about this from Jon Stewart (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-january-16-2012/fear-factory). Pretty nasty shit's going on there.

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Date: 22/1/12 16:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
Theoretically speaking, a union in a communist country is useless. But since this just theory, and China allows ownership of the means of production by a capital class, well, it's sort of a silly idea.

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Date: 22/1/12 21:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Communism in China is like democracy in the US: it's a nice word with little reality behind it.

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Date: 22/1/12 22:08 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
China is an interesting case in that there are "official" unions which are basically government directed to keep workers in their places. Actual unions are outlawed. People go to jail if they are found meeting with union representatives. China's economy relies on workers having no power.

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From: [identity profile] dzlk.livejournal.com - Date: 25/1/12 15:22 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 25/1/12 15:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dzlk.livejournal.com
Exactly. The gov't line is that Chinese workers don't need independent unions because they're already adequately represented by the ACFTU (which is an organ of the CCP). Which is absurd, but ... yeah.

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Date: 22/1/12 16:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
Authoritarian state-run capitalism is the end result of all communist practices. Paternalistic statism is the end result of socialism.

Saying human rights suck in China is akin to saying that Minnesota has pretty cold winters.

But you have to admit it's pretty cocky of you to say that communist China proves to us the dangers of capitalism.

No... it teaches us the dangers of a strong central autonomy.

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Date: 22/1/12 16:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com
That is why I recommend a balance of the two.

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Date: 22/1/12 21:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
If only we could find the perfect "ism," the world would be a better place.
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Date: 22/1/12 16:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blue-mangos.livejournal.com
And a blood iPad and you have an Xbox too do you not? I don't see how you're going to live with yourself. You should give the iPad to me to help ease the guilt.
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Date: 23/1/12 07:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
You should've taken the blood diamond instead when you had the chance!

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Date: 22/1/12 16:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blue-mangos.livejournal.com
Well this sucks. Now I'll never be able to use my Kindle again without my Liberal Guilt kicking in. Thanks.

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Date: 22/1/12 16:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nairiporter.livejournal.com
Yes another chance (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1302396.html) for a prominent corporation to show what it's worth on the ethnics front. But I am not betting on this one doing anything on the matter.

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Date: 22/1/12 17:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Conservative Under L "They can't form unions and work their workers to death? Yee haw, aw Hell Yeah Free market for the win!".

Progressive Under L: "There's still Communists in China? Who knew?"

Regular Under L: "ROFLMAO, the discussions for this should be interesting in the Chinese sense."

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Date: 22/1/12 17:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
In the sense that they'd feel like a sort of a Chinese torture?

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Date: 22/1/12 18:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
Does it really surprise you that it is illegal to form unions in that workplace? First, in a worker's paradise, why would unions be needed? Second, in a communist country, strikes cannot happen, because workers would be striking against themselves (in addition to getting beaten, shot, imprisoned or sent to a forced labour camp). Third, communist party officials and their cronies live in luxury and decadence that puts capitalism's captains of industry to shame. Kim Jong-Il was a poster child for socialist greed and excess. Someone has to pay for their mansions, cars and fancy meals. To each according to his needs...

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Date: 22/1/12 20:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lai-choi-san.livejournal.com
Western partners of Foxconn are accomplices and as such should be put in jail. Period.

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Date: 22/1/12 20:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
Noooooo we just need to sign some petitions and reform the system! Reform Satan! The reign of Babylon is essentially good, we just need to fix some things around the edges! Reform Babylon!

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Date: 22/1/12 21:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com
how funny....i just finished a count on all my belongs made-in-china, vietnam, indonesia, india, etc. guess what? China holds the largest percentile! i am so Chinese i should be speaking Mandarin O_O

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Date: 22/1/12 22:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whak-hat.livejournal.com
This shit has been going on for years and not just with these guys. If you see 'made in Pakistan' it is more then likely made by slave labour.

Capitalism is made from the bodies of the oppressed. Communism and various other political and social ideologies are often not any better (or in fact are worse) so you're kinda stuck in a 'well at least it isn't me' place. This is why no matter who gets elected in the presidential campaign in America it won't change. How do you expect the rich elite to care about things that they can't begin to even imagine? They've never struggled, never suffered. They are kings and queens and nobility and the 'peasantry' doesn't concern them.

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Date: 22/1/12 23:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] korean-guy-01.livejournal.com
Some more pertinent info (as opposed to conjecture) here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46091572/ns/business-us_business/).

join the thread on this upstairs

Date: 23/1/12 00:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com
http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1319797.html?thread=105187445&style=mine#t105187445

or...


http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1319797.html?thread=105172085&style=mine#t105172085
Edited Date: 23/1/12 00:20 (UTC)

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Date: 23/1/12 18:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
I mean the quasi-communist dictatorship making use of coerced labor part.

Did anyone actually think that "Made in China" meant something else?

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Date: 24/1/12 15:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ford-prefect42.livejournal.com
Interestingly, there's a whole *different* china that actually *is* capitalistic.

reason.com/archives/2011/11/15/chinas-black-market-city/singlepage

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