(no subject)

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

This is why crucial infrastructure should never be owned by private companies. Profit motive does not always/usually/ever line up with what is best or what is most efficient for the user, especially when there is no acceptable alternative (if you want to get from Detroit to Canada this is pretty much your only choice). This problem would not have occurred if the bridge was owned by the State. Why should Moroun profit from this bridge, especially when he can't even bring himself to make essential upgrades to the thing?

Comments

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Bah, the people that want everything privatized will probably say this is all a bunch of lies by liberal-communist-Stalinist-Kenyan-Maumau-sozulisht media and it has nothing to do with anything. I agree that this is why private industry shouldn't handle public sector business. On the other hand given that this is Detroit.....

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Want to own a home, best place to do it now is in Detroit. It's turning into quite the artists colony like Soho did for New York City in the 1960s eventually led the way to the city being revitalized (along with a lot of other contributing factors of course). The state is helping people in a lot of ways buying these abandoned homes with tax breaks and even grant money.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

That's a good thing to know, and I hope it lasts.

[prisoner--24601.livejournal.com]

Sadly that's a lot of hype over the actions of a very few people. There are a handful of artists that have moved into the city and even an urban farm or two, but Detroit (which is probably going to get taken over by the State of Michigan in next few months) is nowhere near becoming a major arts colony or being revitalized.

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

"On the other hand given that this is Detroit....."

Reminds me of a scene from The Kentucky Fried Movie. :D

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

Now, imagine what would have happened if state hadn't existed to catch this.

Some libertarians would say it would have for various reasons been "a lot better"
because by some magic people (according to libertarian belief) behave better when there is no state, and spend MORE money on roadwork and general
precautions. This is what some social study researchers call "empirical blindness".
If you don't like what empirical evidence is pointing at, you invent reasons for making the evidence an exception
and you invent situations where factors that you don't like are the blame for it, not the actual factors to blame.

[montecristo.livejournal.com]

I notice you are not supporting your claims with any reasoning or evidence.

It is not "magic," however much you might wish to have that strawman against which to argue. This is a problem of contract. Contract disputes are resolvable through negotiated settlement. If anything, this example shows a benefit of private ownership. Private owners do not have the luxury of claiming "sovereign immunity" when they violate contract, as the State does. It is easier to hold a private company responsible to fulfill contract obligations than it is to hold politicians to ambiguous campaign promises.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

In state there are earmarked funds from taxes which go to such things as roads, there are certain budgets set which are public records.

When it comes to private contracts, there are no such laws of publicity.

Contract disputes are resolvable through negotiated settlement

Glad you mentioned it. Contract disputes also have a tendency to take a long time to settle, particularly if no one can enforce a rule, but everything goes into trying to get a settlement. I guess those people suffering form bad or impossible roads can just choose some other road, eh?

[yahvah.livejournal.com]

This whole notion of sovereign immunity bugs the hell out of me.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

Now, imagine what would have happened if state hadn't existed to catch this.

If there was no government oversight, as in the bridge was privately owned and there was no state DOT to create standards, I'd imagine we'd see a lot more bridges falling into the water (though we do have that due to criminal inattention from selfish, often Republican, lawmakers who don't want to spend the money).

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

Yup. Sorry for infecting your post a bit, I'm still affected from libertarian reasoning.

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

Is the Big Dig finished yet?

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

Yes, years ago. And the problems with that project were caused by the contractors whp cut corners in the name of profit.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

NYC should have one of the best subway systems in the world. And you heard what the former head of the MTA (Jay Walder) said after he left the country to go manage the Hong Kong system, comparing the two systems? BTW, he's making two times the money he made here in NYC, it was a no brain-er.

Just looking at this picture, it looks infinitely more cleaner than what we have:

[montecristo.livejournal.com]

You're spouting economic folk wisdom and superstition. First of all, this is a contract dispute:

The state of Michigan sued the company after it failed to meet a 2008 deadline to finish its part of a $230 million project to improve traffic at the bridge connecting Detroit to Windsor, Ontario.

There is no guarantee, anywhere, at any time, under any conceivable human society where contract disputes do not occur. What you are offering is a red herring. It would be just as easy for State-run construction to be delayed due to insufficient funds, or a public employees union strike.

Second, if anything, your red herring attempt demonstrates the benefits to society of private ownership. Private owners can be held accountable for contracted agreements, whereas the State may claim "sovereign immunity" when it fails to live up to the promises made by politicians.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

It would be just as easy for State-run construction to be delayed due to insufficient funds

It would not, due to the public record nature of earmarked funds for such things.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

There is no guarantee, anywhere, at any time, under any conceivable human society where contract disputes do not occur.

If this was a government agency contracting with a private contractor, this situation wouldn't be occurring. It's as simple as that. This is not a case of cost overruns or construction delays, the private owner of the bridge seems to be completely unwilling to even move forward on the necessary upgrades. If a government agency was running the bridge, even if they experienced some sort of delay, at least they'd be working on it instead of ignoring it because it costs too much.

Private owners can be held accountable for contracted agreements

Public owners would not need to be "held accountable" since they'd be working in cooperation with the state, unlike the private owners who seem to be working in opposition to the state in order to squeeze as much money out of the bridge with as little expense as possible.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

Ask our former State government; every four years they have to prove they are capable of handling public works projects.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

No, private owners *can* be but seldom *are*. Public-sector agents and agencies are far more easily accounted for.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Or why the government shouldn't have been involved in the first place. It can support either position.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

No, actually, it cannot. Government participation is required for a project of such scope (it crosses international borders for God's sake). Without the government the bridge probably wouldn't even be save to cross given the criminal inattention of the private owner.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

All I know is that in Calif when they want building (or demolition) done on bridges or roads on time and on budget, they seem to have private contractors do it instead of Cal Trans. Possibly because the state pays bonuses foe being ahead of schedule, and hefty fines if not completed on time.

Examples: the rebuilding of the 10 after the '94 earthquake; and just recently demolishing half of the Mulholland bridge over a weekend.

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

and i think your county/city loses the money completely if not completed within the set time-frame ~ buuuut i could be wrong about that :/

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

are the funds an issue for the owner(s)?

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

I don't know what his issue is. Based on past experience, I'm guessing he just doesn't want to spend the money to make the upgrades to the approaches.