Public School Success Story

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

The article is really good and should be read, but I'll get down to the nitty gritty:

Yet one of the most significant things Sahlberg said passed practically unnoticed. "Oh," he mentioned at one point, "and there are no private schools in Finland."

No private schools. Doesn't matter if you're in pre-K or working on your PhD. And Finland has ranked among the highest in the world for student performance since 2000, competing with places like Singapore and South Korea.

My main point is this runs in direct counter to the claim that "the government can't do anything right", or more specifically "the government can't run education." It can, it just has to embrace the Finnish ideals or something like them.

I think the main problem is that Americans simply don't value education as much. We're either putting in place bureaucratic policies or focusing, as Sahlberg puts it,

"Here in America," Sahlberg said at the Teachers College, "parents can choose to take their kids to private schools. It's the same idea of a marketplace that applies to, say, shops. Schools are a shop and parents can buy what ever they want. In Finland parents can also choose. But the options are all the same."

Source: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/

Comments

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

I wanted to stick to one point in the OP so I'll put the other point here:

The way education is handled in Finland is very different from America. Equality is of utmost importance. Also, the very way students are taught is different. They don't go for the mega-cram route of China etc, but rather give more responsibility to the teachers to cater their style of education to the student rather than 'teaching to the test'. The only standardized tests are in high school.

For starters, Finland has no standardized tests. The only exception is what's called the National Matriculation Exam, which everyone takes at the end of a voluntary upper-secondary school, roughly the equivalent of American high school.

Instead, the public school system's teachers are trained to assess children in classrooms using independent tests they create themselves. All children receive a report card at the end of each semester, but these reports are based on individualized grading by each teacher. Periodically, the Ministry of Education tracks national progress by testing a few sample groups across a range of different schools.

...

And while Americans love to talk about competition, Sahlberg points out that nothing makes Finns more uncomfortable. In his book Sahlberg quotes a line from Finnish writer named Samuli Puronen: "Real winners do not compete." It's hard to think of a more un-American idea, but when it comes to education, Finland's success shows that the Finnish attitude might have merits. There are no lists of best schools or teachers in Finland. The main driver of education policy is not competition between teachers and between schools, but cooperation.

...

In fact, since academic excellence wasn't a particular priority on the Finnish to-do list, when Finland's students scored so high on the first PISA survey in 2001, many Finns thought the results must be a mistake. But subsequent PISA tests confirmed that Finland -- unlike, say, very similar countries such as Norway -- was producing academic excellence through its particular policy focus on equity.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Also I'm aware of the multitude of problems America has in terms of its heterogeneous population and large amount of immigrants (Finland has like 2.7% immigration if you don't count other Europeans), as well as the fact that Finland is quite a bit smaller than the US, and, well, various criticisms about PISA scores and how Finland's secondary school performance doesn't lead to a fantastic increase in university performance (I attribute this to competitiveness of universities around the world and selective entrants, being able to go to whatever school you want in Finland probably leads to lower results than the cherry-pickers over in the Ivy League and abroad.)

However, the pre-K to secondary education relevance can not be denied and the Finnish philosophy still holds its ground despite the criticisms.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

They don't go for the mega-cram route of China etc, but rather give more responsibility to the teachers to cater their style of education to the student rather than 'teaching to the test'. The only standardized tests are in high school.

This is probably the key that separates the two, and really should have been highlighted over the lack of private schools. Our education system is harmed more by the factory nature intended to boost our standing via testing rather than put out educated children into the world.

The issue is not equity, but ability. Ability to actually teach so children can learn.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Method of teaching is one thing, but equity is also important.

I repeat from the article: The main driver of education policy is not competition between teachers and between schools, but cooperation.

This is an equity issue.

[foolsguinea.livejournal.com]

Well, it's both. Racial tracking was a bad idea. But weirdly, I agree with you. It is focus on the individual pupil adaptability on the teachers' part that makes the difference.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

A very good post, argued from facts and empirical evidence. Precisely why nobody in the USA would listen to or care about it who isn't already convinced of the virtues of a proper education system.

[hikarugenji.livejournal.com]

Finland also doesn't have to deal with the Christian fundamentalists' contempt for public schools. And since the fundamentalists don't like public schools, that means the Republicans don't like public schools either, and they've managed to mesh this nicely with their "small government by cutting things we don't like and things that benefit poor people" agenda.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Do Finnish children, as children, learn differently than American children?

If not, then examining how they get good results is indeed worth our time.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

The better question may be asking whether how Finnish teachers teach is better suited to how children learn.

That's not a question the article or post asks, though, since they're trying to make an equality argument.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Obviously so, yes. US education is in the English language and Finnish education is in Finnish. The USA is not (officially) a state with a nominal ethnicity or religion, Fin-land is for the Suomi and it is officially an Orthodox Christian state. That this does not impact education is a rather ludicrous context. If this answer displeases you, well tough, don't shoot the messenger.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

This, and it applies to multiple comparisons (e.g. "Norway has a unified centralized government and proportional representation and it works great so why wouldn't it work in America?!"). Comparing Finland with, say, Connecticut might work...but would anyone compare Connecticut to Europe as a whole?

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

I don't see why it's not worth a try if it works elsewhere. I've seen people make the same argument for healthcare which is even less defensible because you can compare to Europe as a whole and see favorable results.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

Comparing the US to Europe is overlooking the fact that they're nothing similar in terms of political, institutional or idenitity homogeneity.

Saying that Finland is incomparable to the US is overlooking the fact that the US consists of 50 states, and if something is possible in a country the size of Finland, then it's possible in a state like Iowa. Or Michigan.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Sure, at least one of the state's should try it out. Now if we could just get the Feds out of the way so they could...

[prisoner--24601.livejournal.com]

Saying that Finland is incomparable to the US is overlooking the fact that the US consists of 50 states, and if something is possible in a country the size of Finland, then it's possible in a state like Iowa. Or Michigan.

I don't agree. Even comparing a state like Michigan to Finland doesn't make any sense. Michigan has almost double the population, a ton of immigrants, is much more ethnically diverse. There are places here with a staggering amount of poverty and crime and almost totally collapsed economically and socially like Detroit, Flint. Pontiac and Benton Harbor.

I'm sorry. Finnish ideals are not going to fix the clusterfuck that is the Detroit Public Schools - which is probably the worst school system in the entire nation, because the shitty public schools there are a symptom of a much larger social, political and economic problems. Neither did School choice, private schools and the "marketplace" destroy the public school system.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

That ignores that the USA has a Federal Department of Education, for one thing, while the Finnish nation-state teaches the history of a Finnish people in the Finnish language. Officially the USA is not like this, though in practice its history is of European-Americans of Northern European Protestant descent and the education system is in English. It also ignores that Finland, as a quasi-Scandinavian country is comparable in a US context more to Alaska than it is to the great bulk of the US states as a whole.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Of course there can be a problem when we're comparing Romania and Belarus to California or Norway and Sweden to Mississippi and Louisiana. If we're comparing France to California and Belarus to Mississippi, then we have fairer comparisons.

[oslo.livejournal.com]

This distinction is meaningless without some articulated basis for believing that the relative size or political structures of the two different countries is relevant to the question. Why, for example, is the fact that Finland is not like rural Georgia relevant?

You mention the possibility that wealth has something to do with the distinction, but you haven't made any argument at all that Finland's approach to education is too expensive for the U.S. to implement overall - and it's not even clear that that's the case. In addition, neither the OP nor the article seem to focus on the amount of money spent on Finland's schools as an important element of Finland's success - they focus instead on the educational policy at work.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Sounds like an long and rather distracting excuse.

Is there anywhere in the USA, a state or a geographical region or populational region that you would say compares fairly? No? Why not?

Yes, one can compare apples and oranges. You can focus on similarities shared rather then on the differences.

The goal of having awesome education is the same in Europe as in North America. Finland seems to be doing something right. Why?

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

The issue as I read this, it's neither the quality nor quantity of education that makes a difference. It's sounds like the consumers of the education system (parents and students) actually trust the providers of education (gov't) to do a decent job. And in trusting them, receive value. And providers that give value are trusted. Do you see how this works?

Americans (in general) distrust everyone. (It's still bash a country month for 24hrs) They distrust foreigners, other countries, themselves and especially their own government.

Case in point, the Nexus card (http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/nexus/about-sujet-eng.html). Canadians don't want all that private information in the hands of a private corporation. Canadians would rather our security be run by the government. Americans, having no trust of the government, would rather privatize the Nexus program.

Back to your issue, Americans don't trust the gov't to educate their kids. Americans fear Gov't will teach their kids religion or how to be gay or about evolution.

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

You know, months ago I'd written up a post about the differences in attitudes towards the government between Canadians and Americans. I never posted it because things came up. maybe I should dust it off. But it basically echoed a lot of what you said here.