[identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
Just the other day I shared with [livejournal.com profile] sandwichwarrior a simple little requirement in our Washington State Constitution:

SECTION 19 BILL TO CONTAIN ONE SUBJECT. No bill shall embrace more than one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title.


I've long felt that this should be adopted by the US as its next Constitutional Amendment. It has the simplicity to be enforced. The only people who might quibble about such requirements usually pack legislation with those famed riders, stuff that has nothing to do with the legislation being debated and which is often missed before passage, leading to what many call pork projects.

A set of general questions for consideration: Would you personally support such an amendment's passage? What ramifications, positive or negative, could you foresee that might endanger/quicken such passage?

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 02:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
It would change how logrolling and earmarking works, certainly. I mean, the negatives are that you'd vastly proliferate the actual number of votes that would need to be taken. I'm not sure how single-subject bills work in practice. Do they still allow for omnibus spending bills or the like?

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 03:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
Wouldn't the subject of an omnibus spending bill be "Budget for Fiscal Year XXXX"?

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 11:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
That's pretty broad, though. I mean, what's to stop me from putting a "Bill to Promote Virtue and Deter Vice," and put a billion different criminal laws under it? I just wonder how flexible the "single subject" is, is all.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 11:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] musicpsych.livejournal.com
I was wondering that, too. Like, could two totally separate topics be united under one subject title.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 03:18 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] koken23.livejournal.com
Yes, I'm wondering these things as well. How big is a 'single subject'?

Is 'Military Allocations' one single-subject bill, even though it covers funding for the VA, paying the troops, Tricare/healthcare, reasearch and development of new gear, possibly multiple campaigns which are unrelated...lots of different things.

What about stuff like federal funding for Planned Parenthood? Is that a single subject bill when it covers many more things than just abortion services - general healthcare for women and children, education in schools, counselling services?

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 04:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] speciesofspaces.livejournal.com
'one subject' is in the eye of the beholder. Revenue is one subject. Everything is revenue.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 05:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
At least you'd know what you were getting though. I don't think this would outlaw bills like "Big fat spending package bill" or "Variety of services bill" even, but it would make it so "Protect our national parks bill" doesn't have an addition of 20 million dollars for a grant to an oil company for drilling in Arkansas for instance.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 08:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allhatnocattle.livejournal.com
A justice bill may require budgetary concerns... but isn't budgetary in the least. I mean if Congress decided to legalize marijuana, or add add tobacco to the list prohibited narcotics, there are concerns that could be construed as revenue, budgetary or taxational. But you're being awful manipulative.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 04:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
I always thought voting on two separate issues with one vote was odd. I understand that horse trading is a necessity in democracies, but those things should go on as discussions beforehand.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 08:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allhatnocattle.livejournal.com
The federal bills American Congress/Senate votes on all seem to be omnibus bills. Commenters above have taken issue with the defining (definition of) a single issue/subject. Anal legalese types may debate what should be apparent and obvious, but they do have a point. Manipulation of good intentions is not that common, but common enough, so prevention ought to be addressed.

But isn't this why the Senate exists? To review bills that congress passes and if they find a bill breaches single subject then they send the bill back down to congress, citing which part(s) should be removed or have split up into separate bills. Maybe I'm wrong because I don't completely understand the American system, but here our Senate mandate is to review bills that pass Parliament before they are signed into law.

Because the US Senate is incompetent (and corrupted by Wall Street) perhaps their job should be simplified. Let's define a taxation bill as a bill that involves taxation. And a justice bill as one that serves justice. Etc, etc.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 11:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
Our Senate has no such mandate to review, no. They're just another House of Congress, with the same responsibilities as the House of Representatives, but slightly less power because they can't introduce some bills, but have to get them from the HoR.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 15:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] onefatmusicnerd.livejournal.com
But the House already has a single subject rule. All amendments must be germane to the original bill - so the entire point of this exercise is to limit the Senate.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 15:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
That's a rule of the House, though, and can be revised or eliminated by the House. Besides, no one enforces it, because nobody can enforce anything in Congress's own rules against Congress. In states with constitutional single-subject rules, the rule is enforced by the state courts, which allow citizens to bring challenges against the law as unconstitutionally passed if they oppose it on that basis.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 16:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] onefatmusicnerd.livejournal.com
Well, that is what elections are for, or bullets if we are going the non-majoritarian way, piddling with the rules is piddling with the rules.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 11:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
I think it would be nice if things like Unemployment Insurance extensions could be passed without having pipelines and gutting EPA regulations attached to them like a form of blackmail.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 15:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com
It would be nice to have an amendment like that, but I think it would slow down the legislative process further because you'd have people trying to pass individual legislation for pork spending instead of taking on more pressing issues.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 16:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raichu100.livejournal.com
I'd like to think that this might cut down on pork spending a little bit.

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 16:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
Is this neccesarily a bad thing?

(no subject)

Date: 21/12/11 16:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raichu100.livejournal.com
Yeah, it would be nice. I do like the idea of making legislation more transparent.

(no subject)

Date: 22/12/11 06:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allhatnocattle.livejournal.com
Transparent is one thing, but accountable is the desired result.

(no subject)

Date: 22/12/11 08:08 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
This is pointless if you don't include legislation to speed up the legislative process. As it is a lot of bills don't even come up for a vote.

(no subject)

Date: 23/12/11 07:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
Well you also have to define what a 'single issue' is. If you're trying to overhaul a system then it wouldn't make sense to handle it on a issue-by-issue basis, since the system requires completeness in order to run. Both dismantling it and creating a new system would be horrendous.

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