[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics


We lost one of the greats today.

I remember my first exposure to Hitch. It was sometime in late 2002 or early 2003, he was on the radio promoting Why Orwell Matters, his book about George Orwell's relevance in the world. I was immediately impressed by him - to that point, I hadn't heard the type of clarity or the type of opinions he was providing, and I was struck by it.

From there on, I've been a fan and admirer - from his takedown of Mother Teresa (he later served as the "devil's advocate" (although they don't call it that anymore) at the discussions for Mother Teresa's beatification) to his dissection of Henry Kissinger. His book God is Not Great came at a time when I was grappling with my own theistic beliefs.

Most importantly for me, he was someone that I did not - and probably rarely - agreed with on matters political and otherwise. Yet he showed me the possibility of making the argument to the other side in ways no one before or since has, likely because few - especially myself - can even attempt to reach the type of intellectual prowess and way with words that Hitch had.

Our world is worse off without him, and the irony of sorts that one wishes that he believed there was an afterlife so we could continue to enjoy him long after we've passed is not lost on me. RIP.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 14:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
What did he do other than peddle a certain brand of polemic in service of old and tired ideologies anyways? Oh he was a Trotskyite, how interesting. Oh we was an atheist, how dashing. Oh he was on board with the neocons. How terribly cutting edge. Yeah I don't see what he did other than be a pundit.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 15:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com
Ah, but he brought a literary brilliance and fire that one cannot find among the general punditry. You really cannot say he was just a hack, at least not convincingly.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 15:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Bitter party of one, now being served.

(no subject)

Date: 17/12/11 23:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoststrider.livejournal.com
+11111111111111111111111111111

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 18:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paedraggaidin.livejournal.com
See...I hate to speak ill of the dead, especially the very recently departed, but this, unfortunately, was my reaction as well. Sure, he may have been a skillful and cunning wielder of the English language, but I am not generally prepared to accord greatness to people on that alone. It's not only how you say it, it's what you say.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 19:06 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sealwhiskers.livejournal.com
I wrote in a friend's journal that Hitchens gets the same admiration from blokes as supermodels get, only exchange beauty with witty vitriol.

I believe in many cases he was admired for pretty misdirected and surface oriented reasons.
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 19:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paedraggaidin.livejournal.com
Nah...the Bard is justly called the Bard not only for the beauty of his language but for the content of his works, which portray the vast depths of human experience. Hitchens was a polemicist with an uncommon talent for the language. The late Jerry Falwell was a powerful and charismatic preacher, but it's the message that I cannot like. The form may be glorious, but the filling is not.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 14:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] medea34.livejournal.com
Whether I agrreed with him (religion) or disagreed with him (politics, women comedians), he was always entertaining and informative. His debate with Tony Blair was one of the best I have seen. The world is a lesser place without him.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 15:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Rest in Peace, Mr. Hitchens.

Hitch doesn't RIP

Date: 16/12/11 15:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] montecristo.livejournal.com
Unless of course the "R" is for rot, not rest.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 15:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
I love David Frumm's homage piece. (http://www.frumforum.com/christopher-hitchens-1949%E2%80%932011)

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 15:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com
Oh godammit.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 18:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sealwhiskers.livejournal.com
I shared a lot of views with Hitchens, at least superficially, but while I'm sorry he got sick and died, I'm not gonna miss that man one bit. I find it interesting exactly *what* ppl who admire him actually admire, and in spite of what.

For the left to use Hitchens as a weapon against conservatism, is like nuking any site relevant to future development from orbit, and for conservatives or libertarians to admire him, is to simply wish to develop the same kinds of nukes to use against their opponents in thought.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 19:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com
I'm not sure where that came from, but a man who will voluntarily be waterboarded so that he can speak with authority on whether or not it's torture?

That man's not an enemy to thought.
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(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 19:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com
I should probably be out of here because this is a little personal in a way, but he had both courage and compassion. The degree or precision of his anger can be criticized, sure. But it wasn't without cause, and his legacy was not purely destructive.
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(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 20:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com
Sorry, that's too personal and I can't. 8D

(I am so out of this discussion.)

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 19:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sealwhiskers.livejournal.com
Hitchens was no braver than any other journalist of his opinion would have been had they been given the chance by Vanity Fair to do that video.

I absolutely agree with the standpoint of that article and everyone against waterboarding, but I also think Hitchens did things primarily for Hitchens. If I've ever seen a man hooked on his own myth and genius that would be him.

I'm sorry to even be discussing this with you, since you obviously admire the bloke. I should probably have not commented in any of the adorning posts about that man, because I feel soiled and more like Hitchens himself by just stooping to even vent my disgust with him.

I'll shut up now.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 19:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com
If I've ever seen a man hooked on his own myth and genius that would be him.

Well, shit, what've you got left to say when Dawkins dies? Will you burn him in effigy or just write hate mail to the survivors?

I don't see why. Damage is done.

(no subject)

Date: 17/12/11 01:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sealwhiskers.livejournal.com
Hate mail to the survivors, what? Where did that come from??

And why would I automatically view Hitchens and Dawkins the same.

Your comment doesn't make any kind of sense, except that you don't like or share my views on Hitchens. (who btw treated the recently deceased much poorer than I do, and publicly at that)

You are perfectly welcome to like, admire and adore the man, just as I am to not.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 19:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sealwhiskers.livejournal.com
It's not his opinions, it's how he behaved, over and over all the time. Ppl seem to not see this among all the wit, controversy and smartness.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 20:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
I think some of that could have been his hitting the sauce rather hard at times ;)

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 21:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
It's why I try to cultivate a similar wit, controversy and smartness. If it worked for him. . . .

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 22:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blueduck37.livejournal.com
Hitchens was a prick, but anyone who verbally bitch-slapped the organized-religion powers-that-be the way he did was welcome in my world. I'd say "rest in peace", but that'd probably piss him off.

(no subject)

Date: 16/12/11 22:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hey-its-michael.livejournal.com
"Our world is worse off without him..."

Here, here!

(no subject)

Date: 17/12/11 23:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoststrider.livejournal.com
At the nearest dive bar, in a mug of ale.

(no subject)

Date: 17/12/11 00:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kardashev.livejournal.com
As an atheist, I have to agree with his views on theism(for the most part). As a moral nihilist, I have to disagree with his fairytale view that morality exists apart from the minds who create these artificial moral codes.

Re: Moral Nihilists Unite

Date: 19/12/11 00:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kardashev.livejournal.com
I'll say this: The concept of morality scares me as much as religion does. It's easy to work up the nerve to do anything...literally anything...when a person is convinced that they're "the good guy" and they're doing it to "the villains".

(no subject)

Date: 17/12/11 23:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoststrider.livejournal.com
Personally, I feel that Hitchens is overrated. I don't even think that he was that great of a writer. People just saw something different in how he wrote and went, "ZOMG, that is so amazing!" But really, it was just convoluted and extra, erm. the word "thick" comes to mind but I don't know that gets my meaning across. Suffice to say, I think he was a great guy, but nowhere near as great as so many people think.

Still, he did wonders for atheism and challenging religious dogma. That alone makes him a great man.

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