ext_306469 ([identity profile] paft.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] talkpolitics2011-12-13 12:57 pm
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What do Prison Inmates and Children Have in Common?

As we know, Newt Gingrich, the current GOP frontrunner has doubled down on his idea of getting rid of all those dumb ol’ child labor laws and paying schoolkids to clean toilets and occasionally mop up vomit in the hallways.



He did amend it slightly from his earlier assertion that “Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors, have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school” . Now Gingrich presumably thinks it should involve just laying off some of those unionized janitors. And he has allowed on Curt Sliwa’s radio show, that “kids shouldn’t work in coal mines” or heavy industry.

It’s unclear from the articles quoting from the Sliwa interview whether Gingrich was saying that children should be legally barred from working in coal mines and heavy industry or that we should hope coal mine and factory employers would be nice guys and not hire kids. Since he’s referred to the child labor laws that got children out of mines and mills, as “truly stupid,” I’m going to choose Door Number Two.

At roughly the same time, we’ve learned that the state of Alabama is coping with the labor vacuum left by their draconian anti-illiegal immigrant laws by considering using convict labor instead.

Children, convicts… Both cases involves an essentially helpless, easily exploited work force. Neither kids nor prison inmates are likely to object in any meaningful way when they are overworked or forced into dangerous situations. Not like all those free, voting grown-ups who do things like organizing, striking, or even just speaking up for themselves.

And of course, we can all trust employers not to notice this and take advantage… right?

Now, a lot of people will point out that prison inmates are so much more unattractive than cute, innocent little kids. Fortunately, we have Rush Limbaugh to remind us that we shouldn’t be fooled by children, with their appealing little faces and sad, hungry eyes. They’re really just a bunch of “wanton little waifs and serfs dependant on the state.”



Rush Limbaugh: If you feed them, if you feed the children three square meals a day during the school year, how can you expect them to feed themselves in the summer?... Okay, the school ends, and of course, how can we expect them to feed themselves in the summer, when they haven’t had to for nine months. So this is how it works, they demand to be fed during the summer – or their acolytes demand that they be fed during the summer. Because after all, we’ve conditioned them to not feeding themselves. Plus their parents don’t have to take responsibility of feeding them. And their parents don’t have to take responsibility of paying, not directly, for them to be fed. So, it’s just natural. “Mr. Limbaugh, these children are simply ill-equipped to feed themselves in the summertime, it’s the only compassionate thing we do!’ Yeah, who made that possible? You… by trying to make people helpless. Wanton little waifs and serfs dependant on the state. Pure and simple.




I mean really you give these things food during the school year, they’ll expect to be given food in the summertime too! Any good parent knows that you don’t feed the little beggars after the age of six, but send them out to forage for themselves. How else can they learn dumpster-diving?

In conclusion, for your viewing and listening pleasure – the Old Crow Medicine Show’s version of Woody Guthrie's, Union Maid.



Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes

[identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 09:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Your first link doesn't work.

[identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't see a difference between what Newt said, and what Japan does (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070318/26pitchin.htm). What difference do you see, other than his other politics?

And I think your sarcastic response to Rush's question does a great job of missing the point and avoiding answering the question.

[identity profile] kayjayuu.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 09:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Your hyperbole reminds me of my husband: "No, I don't do ANYTHING around the house, DO I?" From one extreme to the other.

I don't see how it would hurt anything to give students "ownership" of a space by giving them the responsibility to maintain and keep clean the area they spend a quarter to a third of their lives. Apparently, according to your post, paying them to do it, too. Whee, spending money and incentive to discourage your "friends" from defacing what you just cleaned up.

On the food issue, if parents aren't feeding their kids for whatever reason -- and yes, peanut butter sandwiches apply -- isn't that where the progressives send in CFS? Or is it just easier to provide everything a child needs from cradle to grave in one central location, ie, school?

Sorry, my sarcasm is showing at the end there, but I am sincere in asking the question.

cognitive dissonance much??

[identity profile] rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 09:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Ignoring the fundamentally unethical notion of viewing people as Heideggerian standing reserves, I find it funny that conservatives simultaneously place so much emphasis on both some muddled notion of a Protestant work ethic and simultaneously justifying CEO compensation. A labor theory of value and marginalism simply are not coherent with one another. Of course neither are John Locke and Adam Smith's theories compatible with contemporary life, in part because of this firm grip the labor theory of value has on it as well as a deistic justification for social inequality. Maybe its time conservatives develop a new political philosophy that actually is coherent?

http://www.salon.com/writer/james_livingston/ This could be a good place to start

[identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe kid janitors could figure out a way to get rid of that sweaty kid smell in elementary schools.

Re: cognitive dissonance much??

[identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 09:53 pm (UTC)(link)
They could also start with the leisure theory of value (http://www.mib.org/~gunslngr/leisure.html) instead.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 09:56 pm (UTC)(link)
This is Newt Gingrich, the most self-absorbed and hypocritical asshole of a bunch of solipsistic, hypocritical assholes. You expected him to be different?

[identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 10:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Which party?

[identity profile] dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 10:18 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't think any janitors should be fired or laid off, but I'd love to see schools incorporate some kind of physical labor as punishment for vandalism of school property or even fighting. Out-of-school suspensions are a joke -- it's basically a vacation.

By the way, where have you been?

[identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 10:19 pm (UTC)(link)
There's always next week. Maybe whats-his-name, ex-governor of New Mexico, will lead the pack.

Re: cognitive dissonance much??

[identity profile] rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 10:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I do enjoy a good cocktail.

[identity profile] kayjayuu.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 10:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Last question first: Absolutely I do see middle ground. This has nothing to do with being poor (well, for now it sort of does. In a way. I fed my kid and probably would have qualified for free lunches instead, had I sent him to school. Funny that, I still fed him and he's grown and healthy.) In the end, it has everything to do with something that both prisons and schools really have in common: control over the individual. Some schools desire so much control that bag lunches are banned because the nutritional value is deemed poor. (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/11/965945/-Brown-bag-school-lunches-banned-in-Chicago-w-poll) Oy.

Progressives advocate removing kids from their parents if the parents don't take care of them. Feeding their kids is part of taking care of them. Logic follows. (Heck, CFS is known for removing kids who are too fat.) Perhaps I'm not in the know, but those who are poor are eligible for EBT, which purchases food which feeds kids. Ergo, use the EBT to buy lunches for kids, sent from home or from the school. Win-win. There are always exceptions to any rule, so taking things on a case by case basis would probably be a good idea so no one slips through the cracks easily.

First question: I don't think poor kids should be the ones to clean up. I think everyone should have to do it.

BTW, don't get me started on CFS marching in and breaking up families. I'm not advocating for it. XD

[identity profile] dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 10:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, kids don't need to bear the responsibility of their parents' problems. I know there are kids who get a job in high school to help out with finances in their family, and I think that's admirable if THEY make that choice for themselves.

Oh, I know how that is. I used to see my mom once a week but she works at a pack & ship warehouse, so I haven't seen her for our regular visits in about a month. Tis the season.

[identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 10:56 pm (UTC)(link)
And of course, we can all depend on their little "friends" not to ridicule and bully them when they notice that they qualify as "poor" kids who have to mop up vomit in the halls.

It never happened to me. I worked at my high school cleaning the place, and never had issues. That was a highly successful program. 2 hours a day, sweeping and mopping, at minimum wage. My first real job. Nobody really gave us shit.

[identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 10:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Solipsistic? You think that Gingrich, et al., deny the knowable existence of anyone but themselves?

[identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
No, they just deny that anyone who isn't a millionaire has any valid needs.

[identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 11:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Newt has no ethics, so he should keep his fat mouth shut.

[identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com 2011-12-13 11:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Show people be excused from having to do any labor in their life?

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