Newt Gingrich is right about one thing

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

...the Palestinian "cause" is, pretty much, an artificial one. "Woah," I hear y'all say, "Paedrag agrees with Newt?" And yeah, on this issue, I think he's spot-on.

Newt is at it again, folks. This time he said that the Palestinians are an "invented people" who don't deserve a homeland. And while I think the "invented people" line was over-the-top and needlessly inflammatory, on many levels he isn't actually wrong.

The idea that lies at the core of the Palestinian "struggle," that the Palestinians are some downtrodden, oppressed minority driven from their homes by bloodthirsty, greedy Jews and subsequently kept out by the sons and daughters of those Jews is more lie than truth, a kernel of falsehood from which have grown two generations of hatred, misunderstanding, murder, and destruction. Are the Israelis perfect, saintly beings who have never done wrong and wouldn't hurt a fly. No, of course not. There has been a lot of wrong done by the State of Israel to its Arab peoples, but, that does not excuse the evils that have been perpetrated in the name of Palestinian "freedom" by the likes of Yasir Arafat's PLO and Hamas, which far outweigh the evils that Israel has committed.

The problem is, pretty much the entire world except for the United States has bought, wholesale into the ridiculous notion that Palestine/Israeli is a perfect binary system of good and evil, represented on one side by peace-seeking, righteous, unfairly-abused Arabs and on the other by land-grabbing, treacherous, murdering racist Jews.

Sorry, folks, but that doesn't work. There are a few facts that the international community always forgets when it comes to Israel.

Fact: When the State of Israel was declared, the damned Jews didn't, contrary to popular Arab falsehoods, immediately turn their guns on the poor beleaguered Arabs of the new country and force them out of their homes. No, the Palestinians originally left of their own accord, for a variety of reasons, mainly due to a.) not wanting to live in a "Jewish" state, and b.) under the theory that the mighty arms of the united Arab world would soon sweep the dirty Jews back into the sea and return the land to Arab control.

Fact: The mighty Arab armies got a world-class whuppin' at the hands of the cowardly Jews. This caused tens of thousands more Arabs to leave Israel. Some, no one can deny, were forced out by Israel, but the majority left of their own accord.

Fact: Over the next fifty years the leaders of Israel's Arab neighbors adopted a duplicitous attitude with regards to the Palestinians. They took up the Palestinian cause with outward fervor, using it as the most convenient excuse for rank anti-Semitism, fueling a towering public hatred of Israel and Jews, mostly as a distraction from the shoddy and oppressive governments they perpetuated. While all this furor was being spouted off, did these countries actually do anything to help the Palestinians, who were living in refugee camps by the millions? No, of course not. They refused to assimilate the Palestinians into their own societies, kept them poor and haggard and dependent on handouts. Did Egypt, Jordan, or Syria offer anything but lip service and paltry humanitarian aid, while at the same time condemning Israeli "atrocities?" Of course not. Jordan violently kicked out thousands of refugees, and in Lebanon the huge unabsorbed camps disrupted the economy and social structure and were a large reason for the 1975-90 civil war.

Fact: the so-called "leaders" of Palestine have, in the main, been terrorists whose idea of a "peaceful" settlement with Israel means "all the Jews leave or die." People always complain about Israel's stubborn intransigence WRT the Arabs, but few of those people seem to recognize that, for Israel, peace on terrorist terms means annihilation. When given the chance of free elections, who did the Palestinian people elect as their leaders? Hamas, a ruthless and brutal terrorist organization whose avowed aim is the destruction of Israel and whose methods include the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians.

Fact: the modern borders of the Middle East were, by and large, drawn up by Europeans after the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, and are entirely artificial, made without regard to ethnic or religious differences. There was no real compelling reason, for instance, to make Lebanon and Syria separate countries, but separate they became, and now are so separated by religious and political strife that they can likely never be reunited. One need look no further than Iraq, whose unnaturally straight borders contained a volatile mishmash of Sunni, Shi'ite, and Christian, Arab and Kurd, to see the nonsense in the way the map was made. "Palestine" is, in this sense, as artificial a construct as any of the other Arab countries are. In Ottoman times, the Arabs of the Levant (the area including what is today Egypt, Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria) shared a broadly similar dialect and culture, with some unique elements (notably the Maronites of Lebanon, and the nomadic tribes in the interior), all shading into one another. But, the Ottomans fell, artificial borders were drawn, and suddenly an equally artificial nationalism suffused the area.

So, Newt may not have been exactly right in what he said, but he wasn't wrong, either.

None of this in any way excuse the stupidity and arrogance displayed by Israel, especially regarding Jewish settlements in the West Bank (an obviously idiotic idea) and some of the humanitarian crises that have evolved in the occupied territories. Israel has been as hard-headed and selfish as Palestine has been. Israel probably should have vacated the West Bank and Gaza after the '67 war, I am not going to deny that, and the Israeli right-wing is as abhorrent as their Palestinian counterparts. But, the Palestinians seem to get a free pass for their actions in the world community, while the Israelis get no passes at all.

Comments

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

What free passes to they get? I mean, outside of the sanctions or the blockades or the invasions or you know, any of the stuff you were just talking about, only to hilariously contradict yourself immediately thereafter.

When given the chance of free elections, who did the Palestinian people elect as their leaders? Hamas, a ruthless and brutal terrorist organization whose avowed aim is the destruction of Israel and whose methods include the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians.
*yawn* Show me a modern state that doesn't engage in the wholesale slaughter of civilians...

I don't care who wins, honestly.

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

A modern state that doesn't engage in the slaughter of civilians?

Mine! =)

Although we do slaughter whales... =(

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

It's ok, we slaughter seal cubs. Adorable little baby seals :o(

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Does Iceland have the equivalent of "absentee ballots" for their elections?

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

but, that does not excuse the evils that have been perpetrated in the name of Palestinian "freedom" by the likes of Yasir Arafat's PLO and Hamas, which far outweigh the evils that Israel has committed.

6537 Palestinians killed since 2000 vs. 1092 Israelis. And the Palestinian number does not include people who died later from injuries because they were unable to get adequate medical care.

In the same time frame 59,575 Palestinians injured vs 10,792 Israelis.

Fact #1. Yes, many left of their own accord. But not all. Some were forced from their homes.

Fact #2. Are you referring to the 47-49 war here? If so, your numbers are way off. Between 600,000-700,000 Palestinians were displaced during that conflict.

Fact #3. Agreed.

Fact #4. I'm no fan of Hamas. But I'm also not going to blame an oppressed and beaten group for voting for a party they see as having a chance at results. Hamas sold the Palestinian people a false bill of goods, they played exactly into what the people wanted without having any way of delivering. Maybe if they were allowed to have a military they wouldn't resort to the tactics they do. Also, several of the Israeli leaders have been against any sort of peace process as well.

Fact #5. If you look far enough back then very few of us have any legitimate claim to our citizenship. Look how far down into the US my province dips. If the lines had been drawn differently I could be an American. But I'm not. You can't ignore what people identify as, what they have seen themselves as for generations because of some shoddy map drawing.

But, the Palestinians seem to get a free pass for their actions in the world community, while the Israelis get no passes at all.

What world are you living in? Because in mine the Palestinians get little to no respect. More than half the world does not even recognize them as a state. Only 27 countries honour their passports. They receive little to no help from the international community, in comparison to Isreal who receive huge amounts from the US.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Look, if you don't wear patches on your clothes, it is wrong to kill people. But if you wear patches and drop bombs, it is ok. How many times do I have go over this with people? It's the patches.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

6537 Palestinians killed since 2000 vs. 1092 Israelis.

does that include militants and civilians?

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

Number lost have nothing to do with righteousness.

The thing the Palestinians need to do above all else is start using civilized tactics when the opportunity exists. When they demand the release of a guy who in cold blood killed women and children and then give him a heroes welcome you've got all you need to know right there on which side is worse.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

All nationalism is a great big lie believed by people without so much as an atom of proof that it ever existed. So when Gingrich says Palestinians don't really exist, he's right. Thing is that this applies to every other ethnic identity in human history in the history of ever so his point is completely irrelevant and the political version of trolling. I might also note that Israel is a standard settler-colonial regime with all that entails, and is as democratic as the USA of Andrew Jackson was.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I like the part where people are "invented". Hell, if they're invented, it isn't as if they're real people or anything.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

This is what I came here to say. Palestinian identity is "invented" in the same way that American, Dutch and Chinese identity are "invented". Nationalism doesn't exist without people actively working to create it.

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

And saying that Israel is the bad guy does not entail that the Palestinians are automatically the good guy. In fact, I don't trust either of them to do anything resembling sane action.

This is why I don't care who wins or what happens.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

There are Arab citizens of Israel who are treated poorly. The Palestinian Authority is not made up of Israeli citizens, however.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

I suggest Newt views the documentary film "Checkpoint" (made by Israelis). It might have some effect on his blatant racism... or maybe not.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

And this lack of free passes to Israel, it doesn't keep us from sending them a couple billion in free money every year. Nor does it prevent them from expanding settlements, building walls or maintaining the separate laws that keep their non-Jewish residents from having the same voting rights as Jews. Meanwhile they get to pretend that all Palestinians are just random arabs with no valid claims.

Under L states sarcastically:

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

See, if you just understood that a conventional army and calling your expulsion of an ethnicity settlements makes it all OK things would be so totally much simpler. Hamas is evil, so it's perfectly OK to progressively Balkanize the Palestinian Authority into non-existence and Israeli ownership of land.

Ha Newt to Mitts: "Gingrich To Romney: You Couldn't Be A Career Politician If You Tried"

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Tell you what, Newt is kicking ass in the Republican debate tonight. Hell I loved this exchange:

After Mitt Romney made fun of some of Newt Gingrich's more outlandish policy ideas, dredging up his proposal to place a permanent lunar colony on the moon, the former speaker of the House hit back, arguing the only reason Romney wasn't a career politician was because he couldn't win an election. "The only reason you didn't become a career politician is because you lost to Teddy Kennedy in '94," Gingrich said to audience boos. It's something that New York Times columnist David Brooks mentioned in a column this week, and Romney jumped on it. He also mentioned it in an editorial board interview with the Des Moines Register. But Gingrich did not back off his idea.

"I'm proud of trying to find things that give young people a reason to study math and science and technology and telling them that some day in their lifetime they could dream of going to the moon, they could dream of going to Mars. I grew up in a generation where the space program was real, where it was important," Gingrich said. "Frankly it is tragic that NASA has been so bureaucratized. ... Iowa State's a perfect example. Iowa State's doing brilliant things, attracting brilliant students. I want to give them places to go and things to do, and I'll happily defend the idea that America should be in space and should be there in an aggressive entrepreneurial way.¹"

¹ Source. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/10/republican-debate-gop-debate_n_1127482.html#18_gingrich-to-romney-you-couldnt-be-a-career-politician-if-you-tried)

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

that makes a space program-nut like me grin. :)

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

You also forgot the fact that Jordan IS the Palestinian state.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_ww1_british_mandate_jordan.php

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Only because its army could really fight. If the Transjordan Legion had been as bad as the rest, this is the border Israel would have:

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Israel's problem is that they, like the US, think they can wage war on terrorism. What ends up happening is a lot of collateral damage and resentment, or you just murder enough civilians so that future terrorists can't arise because they're all dead. That seems to be Israel's plan.

Hearts and minds indeed.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

You don't understand. Israelis build settlements and evict Palestinian civilians from their own villages they've lived in for centuries, that's Manifest Destiny and hooray for democracy. Palestinian terrorist movements want to reciprocate with their own expulsions and they're evil mindless monsters. Israel can steadily annex the whole of the Gaza Strip relying on nothing but its superior military might but it's only targeting Arabs so that's not really a problem, now, if Israel starts deciding that Jewish state means Christians, too, must go.....

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

so we can't kill terrorists?