Recall Elections

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

The Republicans retained the State Senate in Wisconsin yesterday:

Democrats won two state Senate seats in Tuesday's historic recall elections, but failed to capture a third seat that would have given them control of the chamber.

By keeping a majority in the Senate, Republicans retained their monopoly on state government because they also hold the Assembly and governor's office. Tuesday's elections narrowed their majority - at least for now - from 19-14 to a razor-thin 17-16.

Consider me very surprised, as I assumed we'd see at least 3-4 switch over. Of the losses, one was from a Republican in Democratic territory, and the other was immersed in a number of scandals.

What does this say about Walker and the Republicans in Wisconsin? About the local impact of the changes in how the public sector deals with unions? Heck, about the popularity of the arguments put forth about the unions at all?

There are two recall elections for next week for Democratic incumbents, as well. I haven't seen polling for them yet.

Comments

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

"The people" in one state elected Michele Bachmann. How heavily do you weigh "the will of the people"?

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

that does not follow in any way from what I said does it.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

The fact that the voters support something doesn't make it justified. Voters support lots of stupid things.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Yes it is precisely that. Does that make their opinion the best one? No it does not.

We allow voting outcomes because generally the overall direction is better than the outcome of a dictatorship. However, that is not guaranteed. A democracy is only as good as the people in it.

In fact, our founding fathers, mainly Hamilton, did not believe that the people were capable of democracy, hence why we vote in representatives who are supposed to make the decisions. Advertising political positions directly to the people via PR firms and then voting in candidates based on if they share our belief is completely hotwiring the intended system. The US was not intended to be a direct democracy.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

I think the system is not justified in that it doesn't work that well compared to an actual representative democracy. I think it's more justified than a dictatorship.

Still doesn't mean that "The people" always make the correct choice, in fact far from it and I shouldn't have to explain that to you.

The distinction between direct democracy and a "representative republic" is largely irrelevant

lol ok

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

What are you thinking is the difference between our system and "an actual representative democracy"?

Still doesn't mean that "The people" always make the correct choice

bruce isn't arguing this point. Maybe you're misunderstanding his question?

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

An actual representative democracy we vote people to make the decisions, a direct democracy the demography makes the decisions by vote. I shouldn't have to explain this, this is fundamental political stuff.

It was my fundamental point, and he responded to me.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

An actual representative democracy we vote people to make the decisions, a direct democracy the demography makes the decisions by vote. I shouldn't have to explain this, this is fundamental political stuff.

You didn't have to explain that, it wasn't the question. You claimed we were neither of those.

It was my fundamental point, and he responded to me.

That's nice that it was your point, it wasn't what bruce was saying, over and over, that you don't seem to be getting.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Funny watching you trying to jump in to snipe. Bruce and I were on the same topic. You jumped and missed the platform.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Sure, the back and forth of him trying to explain what he was saying to you was all because you completely understood him. Ok.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

You finished?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I was going to ask you to still answer the question (What are you thinking is the difference between our system and "an actual representative democracy"?), but you seem to have sorta done that over here (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1120455.html?thread=89477319#t89477319), so it obviously wasn't as hard to do as you wanted to make it seem.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

The same state that elected Al Franken to the senate and had Jesse "the body" Ventura as it's governor.....so your point is?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

You made his point, that's the beauty of it. But other than having a D behind his name, I'm not sure why Al Franken is exceptional enough to be singled out as a particularly bad Senator or even a bad politician.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Perhaps, but from the whole thread it was a bit more, but read it how you will....it may have been a bit too nuanced.

Possibly with Franken you are correct, he has been awfully quiet since he was "put in his place" (in a manner of speaking) quite early on.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

In your mind you proved my point, yes?

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

It depends on what your point was.
If it was the voters of Minnesota habitually seem to vote in strange people than yes I was reinforcing with more examples.
OTOH if your point was Bachmann being elected proves people can't be trusted to vote, then my additional examples may help prove the point that people in Minnesota can't be trusted to vote.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

My point is that what the voters choose isn't always the "best" option, for any definition of best.