Iroquois passport denied!

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

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In 1990 the Iroquois Nationals lacrosse team (ranked 4th in standings) quite remarkably became the only aboriginal nation to compete internationally in any sport. (If there is another, speak-up) The Iroquois Nations have been denied entry into the UK even as Hillary Clinton stepped in to issue a one-time waiver to allow the team to travel on their Six Nation passport.

Like many governments lacking sovereignty, in 1977 the Iroquois (Six Nation) League began issuing passports as a way of declaring some independence as a nation, or as some say the passport is a statement to show they are the original inhabitants of the country and are not subjects of the Crown. It is a matter of dignity, pride and distinction that non-sovereign territories produce passports, just as they would postage stamps and even currency.

For a document to have any value it must be recognized by the recipient as valid. The precedent of postage stamps being issued by non-nation/non-sovereign states, and recognized as valid has long historical record. Currency not so much (Confederate dollars) although there are exceptions like Bermuda and even smaller scale exceptions.


"July 17, 2010 PM Update
Lyons Statement


We have been informed that the United Kingdom will not permit the Iroquois Nationals Lacrosse Team to travel to England for the 2010 Federation of International Lacrosse (FIL) World Championships, already under way in Manchester.

While we are deeply disappointed we could not bring our talented team to the world championships, there simply was no way we could accede to the recommendation that we accept either American or Canadian passports to travel. The Haudenosaunee passports we travel on – like the game of lacrosse itself which our ancestors invented – are essential to our identity as a sovereign people making our way in the world community.

We are grateful to the United States and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for the cooperative and respectful talks that led to their agreement to let us travel in and out of the United States on our passports for this event. We are disappointed the United Kingdom could not see its way clear to join the United States in this gesture of respect.

But let it be known that we did not withdraw from the tournament, and believe we won without ever playing by demonstrating to the world the continuing relevance of indigenous sovereignty in the 21st century. And we salute our team, who endured this struggle with dignity and the understanding that they were standing up for something that will benefit seven generations into the future, as true representations of the living Iroquois spirit.

We continue to work to upgrade our documentation to a level of security consistent with the requirements of an increasingly security-conscious world. Though we are unable to travel to the United Kingdom to participate in the world lacrosse championships, the team and the Haudenosaunee nations will continue to pursue solutions so that we may continue with our global development in many respects.

The FIL World Indoor Box Lacrosse Championships are scheduled for the Czech Republic in 2011, and we stand second in the world in that competition. The Under-19 Men’s Field Lacrosse Championships are scheduled for Finland in 2012, and we intend to be there as well, as we hold the bronze medal in the 2008 games.



Joagquisho - Oren R. Lyons

Honorary Chairman

Iroquois Nationals Lacrosse"

Understand that most Six Nations are dual citizens of both Canada and USA. All NDN's are dual citizens with their tribe and their country. Unlike Canada USA acknowledges but does not recognize dual citizenship

But according to the Bloc Quebecois the courtesy of allowing such entity-issued passports is illegal and wrong. But consider this perspective's motivation for saying so. Quebec is formally a nation within our nation, just as all native tribes are, yet if the BQ havn't the support to declare autonomous independence and sovereignty (still) then nobody should exercise similar rights they can't themselves declare. The BQ has long been desiring a seat at the UN, the G-20, and it's own team in the Olympics.

Still I think the BQ have offered a valid point. If Six Nations can issue passports recognized internationally it does indeed open Pandora's box. Why wouldn't Bermuda issue Bermuda passports as it does it's own cash? Why not any large corporation, like Walmart being huge employer could make a fortune off issuing passports at cheaper rate then federal counterpart? Why should passport issuing be limited to the feds anyways? Are we not in a free capitalist market economy? And if we are, why is the passport excepted from this economy?

But we know what has really happened here, don't we? They opted to act a practice outside accepted rules of conduct and have been called on it. The result is a battle of wills. Either the lacrosse team gets passports issued by recognize state (James Cameron donated $50k for this purpose) or the UK will eventually accept SixNation passports as valid.

Comments

[mijopo.livejournal.com]

Why should passport issuing be limited to the feds anyways?

Presumably because the point of a passport is to ensure that some recognized nation with a well established history and set of laws is vouching for the identity of a particular person. More importantly, the passport issuer should be in a position to effectively ensure that the passport bearer has a place to which s/he can return -- other entities aren't in a position to make such a claim as they can't validate citizenship.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

"Governments that issue civil status documents must ensure that the recipients of such documents, as well as the parties requesting them, have confidence in both the documents and their issuance systems." (http://www2.icao.int/en/MRTD/Downloads/ICAO%20MRTD%20Report/ICAO%20MRTD%20Report%20Vol.%205%20No.%201,%202010.pdf) (pdf link)

All conditions (having government, law, recognition, and history) you mention are currently being met.

Canada/USA recognize Six Nations, in fact are in care of much of their welfare.

Governance and laws are practised by Mohawk, Seneca, etc as they were established well before FirstContact. In fact, many scholars insist that the US form of government was at least partially influenced by Aboriginal government/law.

Where SixNation passports have failed is they do not completely meet ICAO's Doc 9303, which establishes the various security measures required for protection against fraud and forgery. Even this is outdated as new biometric e-passport become the norm. In 2004, the European Commission proposed technical specifications for a harmonised e-passport system, first requiring digital facial image as as a mandatory biometric identifier for passports and later requiring fingerprint data.

Trouble is can you trust ever trust such documents or the governments that issue them? Such satements as... "In 2008, the latest year for which data is available, some 16.7 million passports were on an Interpol database of stolen or disappeared passports." indicate those trustworthy documents are ripe with problems anyways. Israel has been caught forging passports just last month (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/15/irish-expel-israeli-embassy-official-forged-passports-used-assassins-hamas-65137087/) And e-passports are said to be even more troublesome, especially if the GET (http://www.getgroup.com/Pages/Default.aspx)is the lone world standard of passports and only printer of biometric ones.

[mijopo.livejournal.com]

"All conditions (having government, law, recognition, and history) you mention are currently being met."

What about this one:

"More importantly, the passport issuer should be in a position to effectively ensure that the passport bearer has a place to which s/he can return -- other entities aren't in a position to make such a claim as they can't validate citizenship."

"Trouble is can you trust ever trust such documents or the governments that issue them? "

Possibly not, but that doesn't mean the solution is to make it easier to forge them

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Even with Mrs Clinton's assurances, and the authority of treaties between Six Nation government and USA/Canada? Well that level of distrust that bars the Pope from traveling on his own passport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_passport). If it applies to one, it applies to all.

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

That's bureaucracy problems more than anything. The willingness of the desks to overrule common sense.

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

In 2008, the latest year for which data is available, some 16.7 million passports were on an Interpol database of stolen or disappeared passports.

Why is this really a problem? Of course people are going to lose their passports from time to time or have them stolen. I am actually surprised it is that low.

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

Presumably because the point of a passport is to ensure that some recognized nation with a well established history and set of laws...

And the Iroquois Nation is/has none of these?? :(

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Yet currency is? Strange how that is.

There's long history of private bank issuing currency. In Canada private banks issued currency long before we were our own nation. Granted they had the reserves in the vaults to back the gold standard value. With fiat standards there is nothing really to back such fidelity, except promises and common acceptance. I'm still thinking of Bermuda as a non-independent issuer of currency, but I'm sure there are other examples.

[lucazzo.livejournal.com]

There are entire towns that have begun issuing their own form of "currency" as a means of trade within the town. They tend to look like Monopoly bills, and can be exchanged for US dollars at town hall.

The purpose? local stores offer discounts when the local currency is used. It's a way to stimulate local economy.

Money is what people want to be money. Printed paper. Cigarettes. Gum. Women. As long as you don't start printing your own bills identical to the local government's, you should be fine.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Like I said, documents only have value if they are accepted as valid. Currency, local dollars or otherwise is no exception. Currency is pretty much the same as postage stamps or passports or marriage certificates or other contracts. (Notice that all the above mentioned are contract agreements between at least two parties often with a third party regulating validity)

Trouble with SixNation issuing passports is they are not always honoured as valid. Sweden and Switzerland accepted their validity. UK has not.

[tridus.livejournal.com]

So... whats the problem? Much like I don't accept Kalamazoo dollars as valid payment, the UK doesn't accept these passports. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. They had an easy solution to attend the tournament and didn't take it, in effect cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

Credit card points are in a sense of a form of currency, as are the various forms of scrip you can get a theme parks, casinos, or arcades.

But outside of those rather niche uses there just is not much of a need for private currency anymore. Most modern countries have perfectly fine currencies.

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

Has anyone every come up with a tax-exempt currency? :D

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

I'm speechless. I really have no opinion on this at all.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Of course. NDN issues always elicit few comments.

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

I actually had to look up NDN.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Happens to me too, whenever I tell a story about the Balkans.

[lucazzo.livejournal.com]

I just printed a passport out. Looks nifty, despite the lack of binding, and the fact that my printer only has black ink at the moment.

Gonna use it to enter Mexico, and I'll cry foul if they stop my at customs.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Good luck.

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

Why should passport issuing be limited to the feds anyways?

Because passports are a state function for very good reason. There are security and immigration concerns that would be thwarted if anyone with a printing press could offer passports. Its also the state that is letting people in, not some private company.

Are we not in a free capitalist market economy? And if we are, why is the passport excepted from this economy?

We are a regulated capitalist economy. The idea that everything should be part of a market based exchange is downright silly.

But we know what has really happened here, don't we? They opted to act a practice outside accepted rules of conduct and have been called on it. The result is a battle of wills. Either the lacrosse team gets passports issued by recognize state (James Cameron donated $50k for this purpose) or the UK will eventually accept SixNation passports as valid.

Or they just don't go. Maybe the UK will back down, but the tournament ends in less than a week so I'd say them not going is the most likely outcome.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Its also the state that is letting people in, not some private company.

Truthfully, the state doesn't exist in any real sense. It is an officer employed by and acting on behalf of the state. Thwarting immigration/customs is as easy as manipulating these officers through bribes, extortion or other means. (Always surprizes me that so many think all illegal immigration occurs through a break in the fence.)

We already have a private corporation (GET group) (http://www.getgroup.com/) printing virtually all the world's passports. We already have some border sercurity sub-contracted out to private companies. So why not have private corps issue passports on behalf of the government as like the privatized registers that already issue driver's licenses. But why stop there? Because only the state is trustworthy enough? Please.

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

Because there is no need to?

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

(Always surprizes me that so many think all illegal immigration occurs through a break in the fence.)

A-hahaha hehehe g o o d one

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

Its also the state that is letting people in, not some private company.

But isn't that false since it is companies which are allowing all the non-documented workers here in the states?

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

They might be taking advantage of the fact they are here, but they did not "let them in" nor really control when they are deported.

[root-fu.livejournal.com]

In 1990 the Iroquois Nationals lacrosse team (ranked 4th in standings) quite remarkably became the only aboriginal nation to compete internationally in any sport. (If there is another, speak-up)

Jamaican Bobsled Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica_national_bobsled_team)?

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

I hate how we're required to have a passport just to go to Baja :( Where else am I suppose to enjoy my weekends?? :P

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

It's not quite the same, but there used to be an Aboriginal All-Stars team in the Australian Football League state of origin (the whole SOO series is gone, not just the indigenous team).