(no subject)

[oportet.livejournal.com]

I'm not a liberal, but if I was, I can't imagine what I would have against the Tea Party movement - so hopefully a liberal/democrat could help me out with this.

I understand the movement is made up mostly of conservatives, so wouldn't that either be a good, or at worst, neutral thing for you when elections come around?

Sure, the Tea Party isn't an official party with representatives, but when a big (or the big) election comes around, they'll most likely endorse someone (If they don't, that would fall under neutral). If the person/people they back are Republican, you saw it coming, and you'll pretty much have the same outcome there would have been if the TP never existed (again, neutral result). If the person/people they back aren't Republican, it wouldn't be taking many, if any, votes away from your side - nowhere near the number it would be taking away from Republicans (this would fall under good for you).

Or am I missing something?

Comments

[rainynights.livejournal.com]

I would consider my self a tea party member. When in the states I tried to go to meetings and I donate to their cause. I agree with their ideals.

I think they are judged based on a few bad apples. I myself am not a racist although I have been called one because I do not agree with Obama's policies so therefore I must be a racist right?

I am a good hardworking American. I raise my two boys to be God fearing and respectful and patriotic. My husband is active duty military, I have survived two deployments so far. My husband has been in total deployed 5 times and has never complained. He too is alot more conservative than I am. He loves his country. We are what most Tea Party members are like average every day Americans who are scared of what is happening to Americans. I recently learned there are over 140 new government regulations that were created in this new health care bill. That alone should scare people. Do you really want the government regulating your life more. Like in CA trying to ban toys in happy meals... sigh.. Anyway my point is we are not right wing nut jobs or fear mongers. We just want better for America.

I have never ever called a liberal vulgar names that my husband and I have both been called by the media and several of the people in here who do not agree. It is childish and crude. I think if we could all learn to respect each other and be civil it would be a much more pleasant world.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Start disavowing the nutjobs who keep galvanizing those protests; Until people start actively decrying the nuts who are advocating violence or secession, then its taken as agreement through omission.

If we saw more on the right actively shouting down the loons it would be a LOT more likely a real discussion could happen...

[rainynights.livejournal.com]

I still treat liberals with more respect that I have ever been shown. Also same could be said of the left protesters who act the same way..

Sometimes I get alittle heated and call liberals idiots or morons but usually I just save those for Obama.. =) I try my best to respect liberals or those who do not agree with my views the respect I also would like in return. People need to remember Freedom of Speech applies to everyone not just people who think like they do.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Once again: Freedom of speech is one thing. Calls of "Traitor" or implied threats of violence against the government is another.

We can call each other morons in the heat of debate; But when I call you "traitor", that's crossing a line; When I try to equate color of skin as "American" that's a problem.

As I said...call out the loons who are standing behind you, otherwise it looks like you approve of their message.


The respectful discussions may flow better when that happens...

[rainynights.livejournal.com]

So I guess because I consider my self a tea party member that because you already see me in a bad light I should just be disrespectful to you and call you names? That would make me no better than most liberals I encounter.

I will give the respect I am given though so if in this discussion or in any discussion I am treated in a manner other than respectful I will just not reply. I don't buy oh go talk to your people and tell them to calm down no they have every right to be who they want to be this is America.

Same could be again of your peers.. tell the liberals like code pink to stop desecrating marine's place of work. Tell them not to mock our troops who are going off to protect the freedom that allows them to mock them. Sometimes it is best to take our own advice. You will find most republicans or conservatives are not violent and repsect your right to be who you are.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Code Pink?? Are they even still around??

And they *were* chastised by Liberals, they *were* called out -- selective memory would be the only reason you would believe otherwise.

So please, let's not use a false comparison to talk about a very real issue that is happening to this day.


And yes, "respectful" discussion not only means respect between us (although it *is* the internet and sometimes emotions rise) --- but you can't fail to disavow the loons AND then question harsh reactions when the loons claim you and you dont disavow them.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Some criticism of code pink, btw -- although again, I wasnt sure they were even still around:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512446,00.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8138744

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/11/18276/131/579/659448

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/10/video-code-pink-removed-from-petraeus-hearing/

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2008/06/19/npr-presses-pelosi-left-code-pink-criticism

[rainynights.livejournal.com]

wow some of those were just a joke.. point I was making do not tell me to go talk to my people when you have "loons" yourself. Both parties have them..

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Both parties have them

Conceding that point, we're still left with how we respond to them.

I and many of my liberal friends refused to attend anti-war rallies because the anti-war movement refused to exert message control -- they were open ground for Truthers and a hodge-podge of various nuts. I personally refused to stand up and be counted WITH those people even though I oppose the war in Iraq.

If you stand side-by-side with the people at the Tea Parties waving birther signs or saying Obama is going to enacy white slavery and don't confront them, you are giving them your approval by silence. If the Tea Party as a movement does nothing to remove their messages from the rallies then the MOVEMENT is tainted by them.

Clucking about "both parties" doesn't make that go away.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Point was people HAVE told off Code Pink. Haven't really seen too much of that from the Republicans or the TP.

Both parties have loons, yet I dont see dissent coming from yours.

Why is that??

[rainynights.livejournal.com]

Maybe because the represent some kind of hope.. I have seen really nothing good come from Obama except well bigger government. No one wants bigger government. Do you really want the government telling you what to do with your money? How to live your life?

The tea party gives the average American a way to express them selves with like minded individuals. I see them as just hope in these dark days. That is what people are looking for is hope.

They dislike Obama the GOP dislikes Obama's policies.. Perhaps that is why they are not coming out and saying anything. Also the majority of the Tea party people have done nothing wrong. The majority are just like I am. Again there will always be nutjobs but you can not stop them from expressing and using the freedoms they have. Just like Bill Ayers is being allowed to spread his hate all because of freedom of speech.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

So let me understand this:

You're saying you have NOT told off the racists and loons threatening violence because "they represent some kind of hope"??

Tea Party people sit up there and complain about "it's not fair to label us racists...or violent", but when asked why you dont disavow the loons who are -- you answer "they represent some kind of hope"???????


You *can* publically say "We dont support them". You *can* have the protest organizers say "We need you to leave; You can protest over THERE but not as part of our rally". That **CAN** be done quite easily.

No offense, but I find your answer more of a cop-out than a serious response for why people should be understanding of the TP; In fact, your answer illustrates why people dont particularly like them -- you acknowledge you have loons and racists yet you show no interest in distancing yourself from them.

You've made my point for me...

[light-over-me.livejournal.com]

You know, Tea Party people are telling off the fringe crackpops when they show up... unfortunately, you're probably gonna have to look at fox news or listen to talk radio or scour blogs to hear about it, because it hasn't gotten much attention. Many Party goers have chosen to react to the bad signs, by simply bringing their own counter signs to show that isn't what they stand for. I remember there was a guy at the recent Boston event who had such a questionable sign. Another tea party member in the crowd responded by walking over and holding up his counter "I'm not a racist" sign and stood next to him.

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

So you disagree with the notion that America's laws should be changed to reflect Christian values? So you disagree with increased regulation of women's bodies via their access to birth control and safe, legal abortions?

I hope your husband is able to come home safe and sound. I don't believe any military family truly enjoys wartime, but soldiers do what they have to do, and I respect the heck out of that.

[rainynights.livejournal.com]

See the first question is hard for me because I am a Christian and I think the world would be a better place if people took after Christ well at least I think so. Christ promoted peace and love and charity those things are all awful right? ha but in response to your question I would have to say I can not really answer. When our country was founded it seemed to do pretty well and they had alot of Christian values but for this day and time I would never force my beliefs on anyone or ask them to believe how I believe. I think or well I know I would not want anyone forcing me to be muslim or have our country have muslim laws.

Your second question I would have to say yes only because the government has no business in peoples personal lives whether you agree with me or not that is my opinion and I have every right to it just as you do. Maybe it women would use some self control that would help and also you can free contraception at any health place so..

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

Then I have no problems with you, and if the average Tea Partier truly thinks as you do, no problems with most of the Tea Party. I object mainly to the notion that anyone gets to dictate what I do with my body and how I believe.

I forget, also, that some Christians really do live according to Christ and not to some twisted legalistic interpretation of what Christ espoused. That is a failure of mine.

We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

You have confessed, "I raise my two boys to be God fearing." When this is translated into a coherent lingual system it comes out something like, "I indoctrinate my children in a regime of superstitious cowardice." Someday, your children will look back on their cult indoctrination and have nothing but pity for the people who led them down that path.

Repent! The end is near.

Re: We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

[rainynights.livejournal.com]

To each their own. I love my savior and would rather teach my boys hope than anything this world has to offer. I do not make fun of your beliefs do not make fun of mine.

I am sorry you think having hope in Jesus Christ is cult indoctrination. I feel sorry for you. One day while I am in Heaven with my family and your in Hell we shall see who was right.

Churches help kids stay off drugs and stay out of trouble and God forbid you know wow helping people stay off drugs wow that is awful right?

Im will not be responding to anymore of your hate so don't waste your time.

Re: We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

If Jesus heard what you say about him, he'd roll over in his sepulcher.

Re: We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

[light-over-me.livejournal.com]

That is pretty offensive and judgmental right there. The irony is not becoming.

Re: We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

If people knew how vicious their actions truly are, they probably would refrain from doing them. I may come off as judgmental, but it is the judgmental whom I judge.

Re: We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

[light-over-me.livejournal.com]

I'm not religious personally, and wasn't raised to be. I grew up seeing this very kind of judgmental bigotry from so called advocates of tolerance and acceptance, and in my opinion, it's just the same vitriol, different ideology. Also I haven't seen ashleymommyof2 being anything but polite in this community for far, until she was ridiculed and attacked out of the blue. If you want to advocate peace and tolerance, that includes Christians, and best to wait until someone actually does something to deserve being chastised.

Re: We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

My concern is her child rearing practice. I feel for those poor children. If you saw a parent thrashing a child in public, you might have more sympathy for the child than for the parent. On the other hand, you may simply stick up for the parent's rights over their ward.

Re: We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

[light-over-me.livejournal.com]

Are you comparing raising your children to be Christians to child abuse? I think, like it or not, we all teach our children certain values that we believe in. That's pretty unavoidable, even if you don't actively teach your child your religion, they will still see you and the way that you live, and be influenced by that. What matters is how we treat our children when they are old enough to choose for themselves, and what happens when/if they make different choices later in life. I understand what you're trying to say, but I just don't see how you're making the leap to child abuse here, or how exactly she's being cruel to her children. Unless I am just missing something she said that would make you think so-but I'm just not seeing it anywhere.

Re: We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

Perhaps it is my extensive experience with cult de-programming that makes me more sensitive in this area. Some of the victims of indoctrination exhibit abuse symptoms. Once she realizes what has happened to her, the victim feels as if a whole chunk of her life has been stolen from her.