(no subject)

[oportet.livejournal.com]

I'm not a liberal, but if I was, I can't imagine what I would have against the Tea Party movement - so hopefully a liberal/democrat could help me out with this.

I understand the movement is made up mostly of conservatives, so wouldn't that either be a good, or at worst, neutral thing for you when elections come around?

Sure, the Tea Party isn't an official party with representatives, but when a big (or the big) election comes around, they'll most likely endorse someone (If they don't, that would fall under neutral). If the person/people they back are Republican, you saw it coming, and you'll pretty much have the same outcome there would have been if the TP never existed (again, neutral result). If the person/people they back aren't Republican, it wouldn't be taking many, if any, votes away from your side - nowhere near the number it would be taking away from Republicans (this would fall under good for you).

Or am I missing something?

Comments

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Once again: Freedom of speech is one thing. Calls of "Traitor" or implied threats of violence against the government is another.

We can call each other morons in the heat of debate; But when I call you "traitor", that's crossing a line; When I try to equate color of skin as "American" that's a problem.

As I said...call out the loons who are standing behind you, otherwise it looks like you approve of their message.


The respectful discussions may flow better when that happens...

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Read the OP again.

The the vitriol is coming FROM those men, not at them primarily.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

so a poll is inaccurate but a collection of internet links, articles and signs from the usual liberal sources is the troof?

you don't present a very convincing argument. perhaps you can show me some more palatable polls that confirm your charges of wide-scale racism, bigotry and gun waving among the secessionist tea partiers.

or was that paft's view? i can't keep you two straight at times.

[mcpreacher.livejournal.com]

yeah, remember when liberals got together a couple years ago and started characterizing themselves as "Real Americans" and, among other things, claiming that 9/11 affected the patriotic heartland folk more than those undesirables in their ivory towers? those assholes.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

yes of course. vitriol never comes from the left. qed.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

The links led to stories that were shown to be true.
But apparently it's much easier for you to attack the source of the links, than to argue wheether they were right (which they were).

And phone surveys are not particularly convincing in any direction -- use an actual survey that people fill out.


So come on -- you're dancing around but not actually discussing whether the information is correct. THAT is what I've been waiting to see you do and which you keep dancing away from.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

you do realize employers aren't allowed to ascertain citizenship today because it's discriminatory?

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Bullshit. Complete and total bullshit.

Employers are legally able to ask if you're a citizen and if you require sponsorship.

They can't ask **in an interview setting** but you do need to disclose your status regardless.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

there were 800+ tea parties, yet the handful of "truthful" articles from the usual sources and a million comments in blogs just like this are used to paint an entire movement. it's akin to calling people racist because theuy oppose obama. well that's is on one the prime tactics used against the tea party, i will agree.

however, you still aren't convincing.

but convince me. where is your accurate poll?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Not relevant to the question asked.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

That's not a poll I respect. Among many weaknesses, it doesn't show registered liberals.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

they can only ask for required identity doocuments, employment eligibility and fill out the ins form i-9.

as i said before, the current system isn't working.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

great. find one that confirms your biases.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Well, if you dont have a social security number -- strike #1.
They're supposed to run a background check (with that SSN) -- if they dont, then we're back to ENFORCEMENT.

And if you request sponsorship or have anything else but "ongoing right to work" then it's pretty clear what your citizenship status is.


Again, it's a question of enforcement. And it's the company's legal OBLIGATION to ascertain if you can work or not.

So again: Merely saying "its not working" without examining WHY is a half-assed argument.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

i never said -why- it wasn't working, but then i'm not writing a treatise on the subject either.


but since you seem to think the problem lies not in current regulation, but in enforcement, i ask once again: who is responsible for enforcement?

[light-over-me.livejournal.com]

As far as a rancheer being killed/crime in Arizona --- there are **other** solutions than racial profiling and asking for "papers" ala 1943 Berlin...

All these other solutions only work so as far as they are actually implemented and enforced. As I said, I'm sure this was not choice #1. But you can only keep pushing people so far. There is drug/gang violence occurring, people are breaking the law, and the citizens of Arizona felt it was necessary to put their safety first. Don't like it? Then we need to start voting in people who actually care about the problem and make it a priority.

There are plenty of countries who do actually enforce their borders and immigration laws--I don't see why we have to be an exception. And yes, there are countries which expect you to be able to show your papers if you're caught doing something suspicious, or who will actually deport you if you're found being there illegally or breaking the law.

Also let's not jump the gun and get our panties in a twist about Nazism. Illegals here have it pretty good, you know. You know there are some countries out there who will not hesitate to put you in prison for life or execute you as a foreigner if you are caught trafficking illegal drugs within their borders. I bet those 4 Japanese citizens put to death in China recently for drug smuggling would have been better off had someone rather checked their papers and deported them.

[penguin42.livejournal.com]

Wait, the proper response to being called racists is to threaten gun violence?

Is this another one of your not-implied-threats-at-all (http://community.livejournal.com/talk_politics/508949.html?thread=36467733#t36467733)?

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

Actually as a liberal I DO hope they rise into prominence as a Libertarian Party. I think siphoning off GOP votes would be great. But then I hope as a result we'll also have a split in the Democratic Party, where liberals leave and we finally break this 2 party system that is ruining our electoral process.

[thinkatory.livejournal.com]

As a progressive Democrat, my issues with the Tea Party:
- Protesting policy, without being able to give a coherent reason why they oppose it without referring to talking points
- Protesting policy without being able to give coherent policy suggestions
- The interchangeable use of Nazism, Socialism, and Communism by this group, as well as interchangeable use of imagery from historical versions of these movements
- A complete lack of knowledge or disinterest in politics or policy predating October 2008
- A sudden interest in civil liberties which never seems to exist during Republican administrations

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Pretty much this, plus the hysteric tone of their campaigns.

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

Hey, I cheer calls for secession. Get those morons out of my country!

Masochist.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

Parties are irrelevant (http://abomvubuso.livejournal.com/378455.html) anyway.

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

How are we supposed to turn the world economy back ten years? We can't undo what's been done, so what solutions were proposed?

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

...and would like to limit my access to a safe, legal abortion. And don't believe health care is a fundamental human right. Those are two big sticking points in my craw.

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

So you disagree with the notion that America's laws should be changed to reflect Christian values? So you disagree with increased regulation of women's bodies via their access to birth control and safe, legal abortions?

I hope your husband is able to come home safe and sound. I don't believe any military family truly enjoys wartime, but soldiers do what they have to do, and I respect the heck out of that.