talkpolitics | Violent Words. Violent Acts. It's Not Rocket Science.

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Violent Words. Violent Acts. It's Not Rocket Science.

Mike Vanderboegh, of Pinson, Ala., former head of the Alabama Constitutional Militia, put out a call on Friday for modern "Sons of Liberty" to break the windows of Democratic Party offices nationwide in opposition to health care reform. Since then, vandals have struck several offices, including the Sedgwick County Democratic Party headquarters in Wichita. 13 Wham.com

The call from the right for liberals to “do what we say and you won’t get hurt” has been turned up just a notch. In reaction to the passage of health reform, a right wing blogger named Mike Vanderboegh called on his readers to break the windows of Democrats. Shortly afterwards, several Democratic Party offices in different cities were targeted with bricks flung through their windows. Mr. Vanderboegh seems positively exhilarated by the response to his message:

"Wake up and understand what is happening in this country. You need to start listening to people who you think you didn't have to pay any attention to, because sooner or later they will get your attention.”

Indeed. In fact, someone out there is so hungry for attention that someone phoned in to the office of Louise Slaughter threatening violence against the children of lawmakers who support healthcare reform.

Imagine that. A blogger posts a call to vandalism on his blog – and vandalism takes place! It’s as if words typed into the ether actually have some sort of meaning and lead to action in the offline world!

Vanderboegh, of course, insists that he’s not promoting “actual violence.” “How ambiguous is it if I say break windows? Am I saying kill people, absolutely not,” he insists.

But you see, here’s the thing about blogging -- readers are able to see, not just the message of the blogger but, through the comments section, how that message is processed and interpreted.

And looking through the comments posted on Mr. Vanderboegh’s blog does not indicate much reluctance about upping the ante if smashing windows doesn’t work. Here are a few of the comments posted by his fans in reaction to what he calls “the window war.” I should point out that the number of comments on his blog are not high, and these were not at all difficult to find:

“Hmmm, no demopub office here, far as I know. I'll think of something...”

“One article talks about a lack of notes, the other, a lack of injuries...hmmm”

“Today it was bricks, tomorrow it will be ???? The fuse has been lit.”

“We need to track these highly respectable representatives (cough) down to their residences. Where we can then present them a Hallmark card (cough) kindly requesting they consider the Contitution when they vote.. Rocks and bricks are optional but torchs, pitch forks, tar and feathers are encouraged!!”

“As we know, our society has its roots in broken windows - not to mention tar-and-feathers (always horrible, often fatal) and bullets!”

“I wonder if the brain dead socialist in Washington would get the idea if it happened a lot more often.  Would a wrist rocket and some ball bearings help get the idea across?”

“I bought a pistol belt and load bearing harness at the Army/Navy surplus store today. Haven't worn one since 1981. Fits real nice.”

“Good thing 223 ammo is still cheep and available. just bought another 1000 rds for 'target' pratice. these clowns are the best gun and ammo salesman in the world.”

“4" PVC Pipe End Cap Portable Compressed Air Tank Hose Pipe Fittings Valve Expanding Foam for Sabot  Brick  Paint, Scope, Laser Rangefinder, and compensator optional.  Use of above parts left to the imagination of the reader.”

“They're all whining about bricks......  Just wait until it turns to bullets.”

But hey, this is all just a bunch of blog commenters right? It couldn’t possibly have an impact in the real world. It's all just posted to upset liberals.

Right?

Well, it has had an impact in the real world. Strange as it may seem to many people, those supposedly “meaningless” comments sections on a blog (and a small comments section at that) actually reflect the views of human beings who exist outside of the Internet and are capable of acting in the offline world.

Literal people, not virtual people, who are capable of reading Mr. Vanderboegh's blog, literally hefting a literal brick, and literally hurling it through a literal window.

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If you think he's exhilarated by that response, wait 'til you see how he gets when he sees the noise the extreme left is going to make about this wave of jackbooted thuggery that is sweeping the nation. Dear god they've got bricks! Run for the hills!

Also, he got a post all to himself in a politics community. It's christmas morning in Pinson, Alabama.

Anyhoo, I count four broken windows, or at best, two sets of broken windows. That's still less than I saw broken during an antiwar demonstration in san francisco, and many less than were broken during an anti-police march in Oakland. And the reasons were largely the same: dissent. I await your post on those events.

Edit: "Or at best, four sets of broken windows."

Do you see this as being the height of violence in the near future?

It'd be nice, actually, if bricks through windows was the worst that happened. Alas, I do not know if things are getting better or worse.

I don't know, either. There's definitely some potential for escalation there, especially if they see themselves getting disproportionate media attention.

I do know that these periodic, one-sided "OMG the sky is falling" posts every time someone on the extreme right does something stupid are getting a bit old.

What anti-war demonstration are you talking about here in San Francisco?

Not a too recent one. Five or six years back, when the war was just getting started. I think it went on for a few days straight, it seemed like?

Do tell, what anti-war demonstration was that? I took part in quite few of them, and as someone who lives and works downtown, I think I would remember one that "went on for a few days straight."

It seemed like it. Apparently I'm mistaken in that; I suppose it was just a very busy day.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, care to address the salient point? That would be the vanadalism.

I think vandalism by a bunch of trouble-making nimrods during a demonstration is not comparable to a blog-directed, coordinated series of vandalism across state lines that include things like slicing into the propane hose of a private house.

So, since the scale is different, the principle is different? Aside from that, there are a number of leftist groups that actively commit vandalism and sabotage in the name of their goals, crossing and coordinating across state lines.

Although the protesters were largely well-behaved, splinter groups shattered windows, heaved rocks and bottles at police and left graffiti in their wake.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-03-20/bay-area/17479677_1_bay-bridge-protesters-snarl-traffic

I can't wait to see her reaction to that link.

But seriously, both right and left need to flush their respective toilets.

any reasonable person will admit that nutters exist on all sides...

That sounds reasonable.

On a related note, she seems to be trying to distance the left from the rioters at the antiwar protest. I'm can't say I'm surprised.

This! Thank you. :)

I was at that demonstration. Those "splinter groups" were small subsets who generally separated themselves from the rest of the demonstrators. They'd pull kerchiefs up to cover their faces and depart from the agreed upon parade route. The footage of those tea-partiers spitting and yelling epithets at John Lewis does not indicate that these were "splinter groups." They seem pretty much embedded in the crowd.

And I certainly don't recall left-wing bloggers posting the addresses of local Republican politician's home, and readers responding by severing a propane line. Or peace groups posting the pictures of the children of Republican politicians. Or left-wing bloggers announcing demonstrations where they plan to come armed with guns.

The fact, is, looking over the arguments I'm seeing here at Livejournal and elsewhere, you guys on the right are all over the map on this -- trying to claim on the one hand that it's business and usual and on the other that this upsurge in threats and violent language is evidence of righteous rage at the hateful Democrats.

Dodge, dodge, twist. I was at the demonstration, too, as much as any one person can claim to be "at" at event that covered the entirety of downtown. Two of the windows I saw broken were by people without your indicated disguises, which I remember because it seemed pretty stupid to me at the time.

So from what you're saying, you're not objecting to the vandalism or threats (those were made during and after the protest, too; maybe you missed reading all of the protest signs?), but to the fact that the extreme right is better organized at it, and apparently serious, rather than full of passive-aggressive sloganeering. Interesting argument.

I'm not claiming that it's righteous, or right; these guys are as wingnutty as some of the protesters were (and are). I'm saying that you (and, by extension, the extreme left) have no claim to the high ground on matters of composed behavior. In essence, I'm pointing out that you're being hypocritical.

Again.

hh: I was at the demonstration, too, as much as any one person can claim to be "at" at event that covered the entirety of downtown. Two of the windows I saw broken were by people without your indicated disguises, which I remember because it seemed pretty stupid to me at the time.

Yeah, it was the kind of stupidity that can happen at large demonstrations -- and not comparable to some blogger instructing cowards to sneak up and slash windows in the dead of night.

hh: So from what you're saying, you're not objecting to the vandalism or threats (those were made during and after the protest, too; maybe you missed reading all of the protest signs?), but to the fact that the extreme right is better organized at it, and apparently serious, rather than full of passive-aggressive sloganeering. Interesting argument.

Yes, I do object to vandalism, threats, and personal nastiness coming from the left, and I've gone on the record as objecting to it.

And yes, strange as it may seem to you, I am much more alarmed by the fact that the right, as you observe, is "better organized at it, and apparently serious" about hurting people.

hh: I'm not claiming that it's righteous, or right; these guys are as wingnutty as some of the protesters were (and are). I'm saying that you (and, by extension, the extreme left) have no claim to the high ground on matters of composed behavior. In essence, I'm pointing out that you're being hypocritical.

Since my entire point has been that the right wing violence poses a greater danger than left wing violence, how have I been "hypocritical?" You've just admitted that right wing violence is better organized and more serious about its aims (i.e., hurting and intimidating people.)

Yeah, it was the kind of stupidity that can happen at large demonstrations -- and not comparable to some blogger instructing cowards to sneak up and slash windows in the dead of night.

It is, actually. I'm comparing it.

Yes, I do object to vandalism, threats, and personal nastiness coming from the left, and I've gone on the record as objecting to it.

As I said, I welcome any posts you might have in that vein.

And yes, strange as it may seem to you, I am much more alarmed by the fact that the right, as you observe, is "better organized at it, and apparently serious" about hurting people

If I were convinced they were always wrong, I'd be alarmed too.

Since my entire point has been that the right wing violence poses a greater danger than left wing violence

That's neither your presented point nor your stance, at least not in this community. Your position seems to be that the right is the only source of dangerous violence, malevolence, or criminal ignorance that can be found in this country or, really, in the world. You don't post about anything bad anyone on the left does, and seem to go out of your way not to notice it, even when people are commenting on your posts with evidence of same.

I'm not a right-winger, nor am I (anymore) a leftist. As I said, I actually agree with you sometimes. But when your posts only target one side, you lose any claim to objectivity, and you need that to be taken seriously.

Wow, it's like your in the FBI.

I know, right? It's exactly like that.

Wow, solving cases on LJ too!!

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Violent Words. Violent Acts. It's Not Rocket Science.

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