Religion and the death penalty.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty religious and also pretty liberal (in the American sense of the word) I became liberal (I used to be a Libertarian when I was younger) gradually as I've gotten older and generally been impressed with how well liberal institutions work. I regard politics as more practical than moral and don't think I have any right to have my own religious notions of morality enforced on others. Like many liberals, I object to the death penalty because if its long history of racist, classist and anti-male** application and its inherent imperfections (a single innocent being executed invalidates the whole institution.)

But, unlike other political positions I have, my disdain for the death penalty coincides with my religious beliefs on the matter. Mainly, that God's justice is perfect, God will send the sinners to hell and the righteous to heaven and it's not really possible for us, as mere mortals, to tell which is which. As such, justice as in retribution is a matter for God. We would do best to respect life and ensure our safety by locking up people who hurt others.

Yet I find that many people who are religious have no problem with the death penalty-- since religion tends to intersect of conservative politics more often. Or is there a religious connection there as well?

• Roman Catholic Church says that the death penalty is "lawful slaying" and basis this on it being a necessary deterrent and prevention method, but not as a means of vengeance. So, if it is ineffective as a deterrent (there is some evidence that this is true) --would they reject it? Recently they have though not very vocally.
• Anglican and Episcopalian bishops condemned the death penalty.
• Southern Baptist Convention updated Baptist Faith and Message. In it the convention officially sanctioned the use of capital punishment by the State. It said that it is the duty of the state to execute those guilty of murder and that God established capital punishment in the Noahic Covenant. This is different from the Roman Catholic take on it-- no mention of it excluding vengeance.
• Other Baptists reject the death penalty, my church does!
• Like Christians, Islam and Buddhists and Jews do not have a united stance on the matter.
• Atheists also have many views on the matter.

So, based on all of that, do we find no guidance in religion? I wonder how I would feel about the matter if the religious teachings I have encountered didn't match with my philosophical notions-- Is it always the case that one must shape the other? Is there anyone who thinks the death penalty should be allowed, though they suppose it is sinful or against their religion? Is there anyone who wants to stop the death penalty though they think it might not be a sin?


**We could talk about how believing it is wrong to kill a woman still further dehumanizes her-- the global effect of this furthesr sexism against women, the local effect is unfair to poor, mostly minority, men.

Comments

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

It is the complete omission of the Christ, the cross, and the mercy of God from a presentation of the gospel.

I was not "presenting the gospels" even so... It's not a "complete omission"

http://community.livejournal.com/talk_politics/433023.html?thread=30430847#t30430847

and there are others.

The topics at hand seems to be the Christ, the cross, and the mercy of God.

The topic was the death penalty. And, if you came to my ~~evangelical~~ church you would find that our deacons and our pastor, when talking about the death penalty, remind us to remember that Jesus was sentenced to death and he suffered in death and he was tortured-- So, what we have seen in this countries recent history is nothing new. People can be so cruel to each other and some of it is injustice even we can recognize. Yet even this sin which must be the worst imaginable may be forgiven.

what is important in evangelical churches (which apparently, if one is to go by your comments, is something other than the Christ, the cross, and the mercy of God)

Where are you getting this from?

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

What is remarkable about the link you've included here is that it only confirms how egregiously you minimize the part Christ has played in your salvation. That comment talks about what you do -- repent -- not what Christ did.

Where are you getting this from?

From the fact that you refuse to participate in a discussion of the Christ, the cross, and the mercy of God. You just keep defending, minimizing, rationalizing, and avoiding. Why not just admit that your gospel is blatantly defective -- and sincerely commit to correcting the problem?

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

You have asked me why I won't "admit that my gospel is blatantly defective" when I still don't understand what these horrible errors are? Just becuase you told me too? Even though you have done a poor job of trying to understand what I'm talking about and mischaracterized things that I have said repeatedly?

I'm certian that I've made errors, I an not an expert on religion. I still don't know which ones you are recognizing or what they are. It's not clear to me if you think I'm wrong or if you think my whole church is wrong.

I also don't know if you agree with anything I've said either.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

I still don't understand what these horrible errors are

The horrible error is that you do not attribute salvation to the Christ.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

That's not true.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

No, it is completely true. In your mind somewhere, you may have some inkling that Jesus saves. But nowhere in this entire discussion did you ever explicitly attribute salvation to God. In fact, you have gone through all kinds of gymnastics to avoid articulating this simple truth -- instead going on and on about righteousness and repentance and "deserving" and whatnot.

Attribute: to explain by indicating a cause

You see? To attribute salvation to Christ, you have to explain it by indicating Him as its cause. You seem to avoid doing this at all costs.