talkpolitics | Religion and the death penalty.

I'm pretty religious and also pretty liberal (in the American sense of the word) I became liberal (I used to be a Libertarian when I was younger) gradually as I've gotten older and generally been impressed with how well liberal institutions work. I regard politics as more practical than moral and don't think I have any right to have my own religious notions of morality enforced on others. Like many liberals, I object to the death penalty because if its long history of racist, classist and anti-male** application and its inherent imperfections (a single innocent being executed invalidates the whole institution.)

But, unlike other political positions I have, my disdain for the death penalty coincides with my religious beliefs on the matter. Mainly, that God's justice is perfect, God will send the sinners to hell and the righteous to heaven and it's not really possible for us, as mere mortals, to tell which is which. As such, justice as in retribution is a matter for God. We would do best to respect life and ensure our safety by locking up people who hurt others.

Yet I find that many people who are religious have no problem with the death penalty-- since religion tends to intersect of conservative politics more often. Or is there a religious connection there as well?

Roman Catholic Church says that the death penalty is "lawful slaying" and basis this on it being a necessary deterrent and prevention method, but not as a means of vengeance. So, if it is ineffective as a deterrent (there is some evidence that this is true) --would they reject it? Recently they have though not very vocally.
Anglican and Episcopalian bishops condemned the death penalty.
Southern Baptist Convention updated Baptist Faith and Message. In it the convention officially sanctioned the use of capital punishment by the State. It said that it is the duty of the state to execute those guilty of murder and that God established capital punishment in the Noahic Covenant. This is different from the Roman Catholic take on it-- no mention of it excluding vengeance.
Other Baptists reject the death penalty, my church does!
Like Christians, Islam and Buddhists and Jews do not have a united stance on the matter.
Atheists also have many views on the matter.

So, based on all of that, do we find no guidance in religion? I wonder how I would feel about the matter if the religious teachings I have encountered didn't match with my philosophical notions-- Is it always the case that one must shape the other? Is there anyone who thinks the death penalty should be allowed, though they suppose it is sinful or against their religion? Is there anyone who wants to stop the death penalty though they think it might not be a sin?

**We could talk about how believing it is wrong to kill a woman still further dehumanizes her-- the global effect of this furthesr sexism against women, the local effect is unfair to poor, mostly minority, men.

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Another possible explanation is that sinlge-comment blunt-force assertions are not always the best way to catechize someone whose head may be filled with misinformation and who may have been taught for years that this misinformation is legit.

That's certainly not the way I was taught.

Well, contrary to popular belief (ha!), many people are willing to learn new things and change their mind if presented with a better idea than they already think they have. I know a single conversation might not do it for them, but it surely helps.

Yes, that is why we try to engage people in an extended and exploratory conversation -- rather than just saying "It is not God's justice that saves us, but His mercy."

Of course that is true. God's justice is not about "saving us" it's about vengeance belong to God and not to man.

If you had said this in the first place this would have been simpler.

Your concern continues to seem to me to be something other than a better understanding Christ's gospel.

I really don't understand why you keep saying this.

Because your concern continues to seem to me to be something other than a better understanding Christ's gospel.

The concern of this post was understating how the death penalty is viewed in a few religions and then thinking about what happens when a person is a member of a religion that contradicts their political views (if it is possible to do that.)

You pointed out an error in my brief characterization of the afterlife and I agreed with you rather quickly that it was an error... ?

But, then you keep finding other errors. Like leaving out the word "Lord" when translating Jesus. I'm not saying that it's "minor" or "unimportant" it is important --but you keep taking everything I say literally. Like I literally think Jesus is not Lord becuase I left the word out.

Then you said "It seems rather plain: people who pray a prayer with you and then tell you you're "saved" as a result of praying that prayer." and called some evangelicals (I assume including me) people who think that going to Church is like "fire insurance"

Then you said "No, it's completely evident that you think salvation is a matter of justice." which I took to mean that you think I think it's a system of rewards and punishments like training a dog or something...

Like I literally think Jesus is not Lord becuase I left the word out.

No, I didn't say anything remotely like that. What I said was that you attribute salvation to something other than God's saving. merciful nature.

people who think that going to Church is like "fire insurance"

No, I didn't say anything remotely like that. What I said was that evangelicals view salvation as "fire insurance."

Edited 2010-03-10 13:51 (UTC)

Religion and the death penalty.

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