talkpolitics | Religion and the death penalty.

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Religion and the death penalty.

I'm pretty religious and also pretty liberal (in the American sense of the word) I became liberal (I used to be a Libertarian when I was younger) gradually as I've gotten older and generally been impressed with how well liberal institutions work. I regard politics as more practical than moral and don't think I have any right to have my own religious notions of morality enforced on others. Like many liberals, I object to the death penalty because if its long history of racist, classist and anti-male** application and its inherent imperfections (a single innocent being executed invalidates the whole institution.)

But, unlike other political positions I have, my disdain for the death penalty coincides with my religious beliefs on the matter. Mainly, that God's justice is perfect, God will send the sinners to hell and the righteous to heaven and it's not really possible for us, as mere mortals, to tell which is which. As such, justice as in retribution is a matter for God. We would do best to respect life and ensure our safety by locking up people who hurt others.

Yet I find that many people who are religious have no problem with the death penalty-- since religion tends to intersect of conservative politics more often. Or is there a religious connection there as well?

Roman Catholic Church says that the death penalty is "lawful slaying" and basis this on it being a necessary deterrent and prevention method, but not as a means of vengeance. So, if it is ineffective as a deterrent (there is some evidence that this is true) --would they reject it? Recently they have though not very vocally.
Anglican and Episcopalian bishops condemned the death penalty.
Southern Baptist Convention updated Baptist Faith and Message. In it the convention officially sanctioned the use of capital punishment by the State. It said that it is the duty of the state to execute those guilty of murder and that God established capital punishment in the Noahic Covenant. This is different from the Roman Catholic take on it-- no mention of it excluding vengeance.
Other Baptists reject the death penalty, my church does!
Like Christians, Islam and Buddhists and Jews do not have a united stance on the matter.
Atheists also have many views on the matter.

So, based on all of that, do we find no guidance in religion? I wonder how I would feel about the matter if the religious teachings I have encountered didn't match with my philosophical notions-- Is it always the case that one must shape the other? Is there anyone who thinks the death penalty should be allowed, though they suppose it is sinful or against their religion? Is there anyone who wants to stop the death penalty though they think it might not be a sin?

**We could talk about how believing it is wrong to kill a woman still further dehumanizes her-- the global effect of this furthesr sexism against women, the local effect is unfair to poor, mostly minority, men.

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I have rather plainly refuted the OP's assertion with simple scripture references in other comments. This isn't a theology community -- so it doesn't seem that the specifics of Christian orthodoxy really warrant much investigation here. But it is pretty clear that "sinners go to hell and the righteous go to heaven" is a rather poor characterization of orthodox soteriology.

Why not just offer a better one? Maybe you don't know me but I'm not one to fight to the death over a person with good information.

Maybe you're not worth the intellectual effort that is required to present a coherent alternative explanation, or something like that, I don't know. I'm only speculating here. But if that were the case, it would've been rude.

I've seen plenty of super-intelligent guys who are experts in this or that field, who always say something of the sort of "You don't know shit about this stuff" and then laughing off any subsequent attempts of the other side to engage in a constructive discussion. In most cases I explain this with sheer arrogance, but it could be also laziness.

I don't think it takes *that* much effort--

Exactly.

Just so you know, if *I* ever come across as an expert on religion, the only possible explanation is that I'm doing it wrong. I would agree in a general sense with

pastorlenny that there are a great deal of misconceptions by non-Christians about Christianity but I generally just try to point them out and then drop it if the person doesn't see it my way. Rather than baiting.

Another possible explanation other than laziness or arrogance is that some of this stuff is pretty complex. Take the Trinity, for example, I don't even fully understand/buy in to it myself, so trying to explain to you if you asked me about it while slowed to the agonizing crawl of the written word would NOT be something I'd look forward to.

Another possible explanation is that sinlge-comment blunt-force assertions are not always the best way to catechize someone whose head may be filled with misinformation and who may have been taught for years that this misinformation is legit.

That's certainly not the way I was taught.

Well, contrary to popular belief (ha!), many people are willing to learn new things and change their mind if presented with a better idea than they already think they have. I know a single conversation might not do it for them, but it surely helps.

Yes, that is why we try to engage people in an extended and exploratory conversation -- rather than just saying "It is not God's justice that saves us, but His mercy."

Of course that is true. God's justice is not about "saving us" it's about vengeance belong to God and not to man.

If you had said this in the first place this would have been simpler.

Your concern continues to seem to me to be something other than a better understanding Christ's gospel.

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