talkpolitics | We love freedom... but not all types of freedom

Curious how things quickly turn around, as soon as they don't happen to match the official partisan narrative of your political camp. So, big guvmint = bad; but big police state = good. Got it.

Civil War Breaks Out Over Rand Paul On Fox's 'The Five'

The predictable reactions from the mainstream Republicans to his 13-hour filibuster effort aside, evidently, Rand Paul is suddenly being declared "sad and disgusting" for wanting to stay consistent with the small-government principle that libertarians are supposed to espouse, and wanting to end a massive surveillance practice that has proven absolutely useless.

"You believe in the Second Amendment, why not the Fourth Amendment?" -- Geraldo "Women Mostly Bring Their Youth To A Marriage" Rivera. Yeah right! Let's measure whose amendment is bigger!

I also love how they used Hillary Clinton as a scarecrow. What if she wins the presidency? Would it be OK if she had control over all those massifs of intel, mhmmm? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's going to be morbidly fascinating to observe how FOX is almost certainly going to employ its entire propaganda machine in an effort to destroy one of the right-wing's brightest political fighters now. Sean "The Constitution Doesn't Mention Separation of Church and State" Hannity was quick to go after him on his show, and of course we all know Hannity would lick the boots of any GOPer who ever shows up on his show. And, since FOX, although lying most of the time, does largely direct the narrative on the right, you may well write off Rand Paul's candidacy at this point.

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It's entertaining to watch these guys twist into all sorts of pretzels to accommodate the party line.

The party line is in flux, the newcomers are challenging the old guard and the old guard is pulling an "enemy mine" with the opposition in the hopes of holding onto what power they have. What can I say except...

...though personally I'm rooting for Paul.

The problem is, for all of the talk about "smaller government," the Republican Party (or at least it's leadership) is not actually concerned with size of government so much as who gets to hold its reigns. They're honestly not all that different from the Democratic Party in that regard: both want for the government to manage certain spheres. It's just that those spheres don't really overlap for the most part, and in both cases folks will claim that the stuff within their sphere is the "proper" role of government and stuff outside it is "overreach."

Along comes a libertarian minded candidate, who actually does believe in smaller government principles, and the talking heads are revealed for the liars they are. They say "smaller government," but they only mean "smaller government except for those areas we want government in."

That's actually less of a criticism than it sounds: everyone (even a libertarian) has opinions about the role and scope of government, which areas are appropriate for it to govern, and where it ought to keep its hands to itself. Disagreeing about the where and why doesn't make one automatically wrong. I might disagree with the Republican philosophy on such things, but that's just my opinion (which I've realized tracks slightly left of the Democratic Party line.)

No, the real criticism I have of the Republicans is that those with a mouthpiece in the party don't just say: "We disagree as to which areas government ought to intervene"; they instead say "government needs to be shrunk down and drowned in the bathtub" and toss out platitudes and sound-bytes about smaller government while demonstrating with their actions a love of huge government, so long as it's huge in the direction they want. That's what frustrates me, that hypocrisy. And being revealed in that hypocrisy is what I think has so many of these talking heads livid when it comes to someone like Rand Paul. Say what you will about libertarianism (a philosophy I disagree with at least as much as the GOP platform,) at least he's consistent, and that consistency makes those who only pay lip service to such principles look bad.

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I don't know if I'd write off his candidacy at this point, though. Remember, the primary process is largely influenced by the Tea Party faction of the base, and they both like Rand Paul, and don't always fall in lockstep with Fox News. At this point, the GOP ticket is still anybody's guess.

Edited 2015-06-04 13:15 (UTC)

I say a Trump/Palin ticket would be best - for shits'n'giggles sake.

Now wouldn't that be epic!

I'd adore that just for the SNL sketches and Daily Show commentary.

Then again: remember what Revelations chapter 6 says:

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, Trump and Palin did win the election, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

And lo, Jon Stewart stood, and returneth to the Daily Show, and holding aloft a scroll, proclaimed: "Now shall I chronicle for you the end of times."

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Well the "old guard"'s enmity towards the libertarian / tea party wing of the Republican party is hardly news. Those who are in power want to stay in power.

As for your criticism (one I sympathize with) I would remind you of rule twelve...

“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

If the Democrat and Republican leadership agree on anything it's that the Tea Party and it's sympathizers are a threat to their power. Attacking libertarian ideals is hard. Attacking a Rand Paul is easy. I expect to see a lot more of this from both sides as we get closer to the election.

Well, at least they had an actual discussion this time.

He won't get past this round as a Republican, probably ever. I figure he'll eventually do what Ron did, maybe give Independent or Libertarian a try, maybe come back and give Republican a shot if the numbers look good.

I don't think he's as smart as his paw - but he's more relatable - there's not as much of the 'why don't you idiots understand what I'm trying to explain to you?' tone behind his rants.

I'm not claiming he'd have a legit chance as an indy now - but Hillary is becoming more unlikable by the day, and the Republicans will likely put up someone with the charisma of brick - so why not now? Make some rich and famous friends and make the charge without a party.

Republicans will likely put up someone with the charisma of brick -

Along with the brains of a brick, so...

Which will still be better than the alternative.

Proving my point for me.

Scott Walker, Rick Perry, Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio... I can't tell if it's a Republican primary or the circus has arrived.

Where as with Hillary we know it's the mob.

Nice country you have here, be a shame if something happened to it. ;)

I'm still hoping for Sanders. For once my primary vote might actually matter here in New York. It's such a solid Hillary state.

Yeah, it's what, a 20 ring circle of candidates at this point and still growing? Dante's Inferno didn't have that many circles in hell

Who knew there that was that much variety of crazy.!

We love freedom... but not all types of freedom

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