ext_36450 ([identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] talkpolitics2014-03-01 09:21 am

Now the Long Knives are poised right in the back of Ukraine:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035

Fucking brilliant approach, this. First the attempt to play divide and conquer in Ukraine pretty transparently crashed and burned with the retun of Ukraine's Benazir Bhutto to political influence. Then, the Russians decide evidently that they really did move in Russian Army soldiers into the Crimea. Because the proper instinct when a risky gamble fails is to raise the stakes. This is not going to end well by any means. Now I'm wondering how long Lucashenko will have a country to rule as dictator, and what might happen with Round II with Georgia. If Tsar Vladimir I of the House of Putin succeeds in this kind of thing, that will only encourage him to expand his wars of aggression further because Ukraine is rather larger than Georgia, and this would permit Russia to begin aspiring to regain aspects of the old Tsarist boundaries. I sincerely expected Russia would use Central Asia for this kind of thing, not Ukraine.

The EU wouldn't give a damn about invading Muslims in Kazakhstan, but invading an EU state? That's not going to lead Russia to do anything but decide to engage in still-larger wars of aggression in the long term.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/europe/ukraine-politics/

And one of the chambers of the Russian legislature just approved this request. Hoo, boy.

Shit got real-er:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26403996

The Ukrainian Army is now on full combat alert. The prospect that the centennial year of the First World War will see the first large-scale conventional European war in decades has risen exponentially.

[identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 03:59 am (UTC)(link)
He bombed the hell out of civilians, then, after being warned (with a red line) about using chemical weapons, he used chemical weapons, and now he's back to killing civilians with non-wmd's again. This would show that he wasn't taking Obama seriously, and with hindsight he was right.

[identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 04:37 am (UTC)(link)
after being warned (with a red line) about using chemical weapons, he used chemical weapons

Goodnight.

[identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 08:55 am (UTC)(link)
You'll kindly note Underlankers also says Assad used chemical weapons ("he stopped using them").

So perhaps you can ask him for a citation too.

[identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 10:03 am (UTC)(link)
after being warned (with a red line) about using chemical weapons, he used chemical weapons

So do you or don't you have a citation for the above?

[identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 10:52 am (UTC)(link)
So you're not going to ask Underlankers too?
I'm surprised, you're usually so fair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Ghouta_attacks

Of course Russia and Syria claimed it was the rebels who used the gas, so there is doubt.

[identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 11:58 am (UTC)(link)
Do you ever check your sources before you post?

The Ghouta chemical attack occurred on 21 August 2013.

In September 2013, the Syrian government, while not admitting responsibility for the attack, declared its intention to join the Chemical Weapons Convention and destroy its chemical weapons.

Has Assad broken his vow to not use chemical weapons?

Aside from that, for someone expecting fairness of others, you oddly seem to have already decided who was responsible for the attack.
Edited 2014-03-02 11:58 (UTC)

[identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 12:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Perhaps you're drunk.

No one said anything about Assad and his vows, the subject was Obama's "red line" and Assad crossing it.

“We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized,” the president said a year ago last week. “That would change my calculus. That would change my equation.” (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/08/president-obamas-red-line-what-he-actually-said-about-syria-and-chemical-weapons/)

That was Obama, before the attacks.

And yes, it's quite odd that I decided Syria was responsible for the attacks. I'm probably the only one who thinks that.

[identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 01:08 pm (UTC)(link)
> I'm probably the only one who thinks that.

Awww. Argumentum ad populum.

> Perhaps you're drunk.

Haven't you learned anything? I always am.

Oh well, I think we're done here.

[identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 12:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Your input could've been much more worthwhile without the ad hominem.

[identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 01:09 pm (UTC)(link)
That's the best you've got? Why am I not surprised?

[identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 01:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Looks like your high horse rode out of town without you.

[identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com 2014-03-02 04:16 pm (UTC)(link)
At least I still have a horse - if I could catch on with it in the next town, that is. ;-)