http://luzribeiro.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] luzribeiro.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] talkpolitics2013-12-08 04:43 pm

Pissing on holy Mammon? How DARE he!

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/02/rush-limbaugh-vs-the-pope/

"But Limbaugh, whose program is estimated to reach 15 million listeners, called the Pope's comments "sad" and "unbelievable." "It's sad because this pope makes it very clear he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to capitalism and socialism and so forth.""

Oh how worked up the Pope has made some guys! Suddenly the pontiff stops being so infallible, eh? He just doesn't understand what Jesus is whispering in his ear, and he needs someone to explain it to him. Someone who knows more about capitalism and socialism "and so forth".

Someone like a Fox "news" commentator, perhaps?

"I go to church to save my soul," said Fox News' Stuart Varney, who is an Episcopalian. "It's got nothing to do with my vote. Pope Francis has linked the two. He has offered direct criticism of a specific political system. He has characterized negatively that system. I think he wants to influence my politics."

So... capitalism is a political system, now? When did that happen, pray tell? (pun unintended) When did capitalism stop being an economic and social system using markets to distribute goods and services, and suddenly become a political system? I thought capitalism was a tool? Does this, highly competent and infinitely infallible pundit, by any chance, happen to be mixing up capitalism with democracy? As if speaking with a British accent would magically make him look smarter, eh? But what do I know. I'm not on Fox "news", therefore I don't know shit about these things "and so forth".

See, the very notion of capitalism being an imperfect tool and this possibly warranting criticism thereof, must be such a scary prospect to a certain segment of society. The very notion that without regulation, capitalist markets tend to fail to account for all costs ("externalities", as the PC term goes, like pollution for example), or to meet the needs and interests of society in an adequate way (like preventing child labor) - that's such a blasphemy to the worshipers of King Dollar. Anathema!

In a way, right-wing conservatives like the two guys cited above have raised Capitalism (capital C) to a pedestal, and it sits even higher than their precious Jesus, whose name they so eagerly and shamelessly use as a war-flag at any given opportunity. They've turned pure, hardcore, unbridled capitalism into an ideal, not a tool. An end by itself, rather than a means to an end.

Which is exactly why they'd now cringe almost like a Pavlov-dog reflex, and hysterically cry a river of tears with a face reddened like a tomato, even at the remotest hint of criticism of their actual god. Somehow, reminding people that capitalism is just a tool, a relatively efficient and useful tool for allocating goods and services to a maximum number of people, but still a tool with its own flaws that need addressing - is now viewed among those circles as if it were some kind of Marxist crazy-talk. Well, I say stay classy, right-wingers. Kneeling before Mammon - you're doing it well.

Really, why would it matter that the Pope criticizing capitalism in its current form =/= advocating forcing people to give up their property and redistribute it to everyone else (i.e. Marxism)? All that matters is that Rush and his listeners and supporters are so, so utterly SHOCKED to see the dogma of their true religion, Capitalism, being challenged. And they can now share their shock with each other, and raise their trembling voices of righteous indignation into a choir of weeping and wailing, tears in the eyes and face reddened like a tomato. And that'd help them feel more accomplished, validated, more significant than they are, removing all insecurity, silencing all complexes. All they need to do is shut their ears, wave their hands, and keep repeating the mantras that their selected preacher has deigned upon them.


I bet if Rush & Co. ever met Jesus in person without suspecting of his identity, they'd label him a Marxist outright, and drown him in rivers of spittle after exchanging just a couple of sentences with the guy. All he need say is, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God"; and: "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven".

But yeah, I get it, he's just a "comedian", right? He likes to emphasize on his points by using comedic effect? They all do that, right? Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity... That's always been my fave disclaimer. And also this one: "See, he's just saying whatever would help him gain more audience, and ultimately, sell his product to the public better". So the really sad thing here is not that he's a hypocrite, twisting and using the Gospel to his personal benefit, and to push an agenda that runs directly counter to anything said Gospel preaches - no, it's the fact that he has "an estimated 15 million listeners", who follow every word he says, then regurgitate it in society, and ultimately, pick a considerably significant portion of the leaders of that society, to then go and craft policies that would eventually affect everyone.

Let's stop pretending that these guys are not calling the shots within a considerably significant segment of society, shall we?

[identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com 2013-12-08 09:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Kidneys made it that color, right?

[identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com 2013-12-08 10:19 pm (UTC)(link)
The Vatican has restricted the priesthood for men and teaches that women cannot become priests because Jesus willingly chose only men as his apostles...

Also, IIRC, because females cannot embody Christ (who had a penis!) and therefore cannot transsubstantiate the Eucharist into Christ's actual body.

[identity profile] foolsguinea.livejournal.com 2013-12-08 10:23 pm (UTC)(link)
I was a child in the USA in the 1980's, and the idea that, "A Christian is a capitalist is an American is YOU," was endemic and largely unchallenged in very mainstream media. It's a form of "political correctness" in the USA, that we are considered disloyal not to be actively for capitalism. Maybe more now that the Cold War is officially "over."

I can easily believe that if I have sometimes found myself scrambling words, using "American," "human," & "Christian," for each other, that some people confuse those concepts.

Remove "human" from that embarrassing concept confusion scramble, throw in "conservative," & "capitalist," and you pretty much have the deliberately propagandized dogma of the cult of the Americanist Christian Right. So of course "a real Christian is a religious conservative (like your church, not those UCC/ELCA/Anglican whores) is a political conservative is an anticommunist is a capitalist." Having the Pope puncture that is scary to those who use that exact thinking to win elections and set policy.

[identity profile] ivankon.livejournal.com 2013-12-08 10:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I remember it was a Marxist idea that economical and political systems are inseparable things.

Capitalism is a tool but not political system? Do you mean capitalism = free market?
Edited 2013-12-08 22:34 (UTC)

[identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com 2013-12-08 10:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Welcome back!

[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com 2013-12-08 11:11 pm (UTC)(link)
And I suppose nearly every controversial subject could be reduced to that minimalist description. I do think the dynamic here is a different one, considering the culture war that's been fought in the United States over the course of the last 25 - 30 years.

YMMV.
Edited 2013-12-08 23:46 (UTC)

[identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com 2013-12-08 11:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Makes sense to me.

[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com 2013-12-08 11:52 pm (UTC)(link)
I would guess Russia and Vatican City have ambassadors.

[identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 12:06 am (UTC)(link)
I was sincere about my ignorance. I know that there have been historical schisms between western and Russian church.

I even didn't know Russia has a person inside the Vatican:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8394079.stm
Edited 2013-12-09 00:08 (UTC)

[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 12:10 am (UTC)(link)
No, no-- I know you were serious about that, and not jesting. Things were getting ironed out with Protestants in the 1960s/70s as a result of Vatican 2 at the bequest of Popes John XXIII and Paul 6. John Paul froze any further serious further advances, because his though reunion with the Orthodox churches was a priority. There has been historical antagonism between the Latin rite and the Russian Orthodox church (mostly in Poland as the boundaries were constantly moved, Romania (near the current border) and several other places in Eastern Europe.

[identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 12:23 am (UTC)(link)
Sweet!

[identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 12:29 am (UTC)(link)
That is what I was alluding too, sounds like you know it well.

[identity profile] 404.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 02:13 am (UTC)(link)
Oh noessss, Fox "news" scare quotes!!!

Image

[identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 03:33 am (UTC)(link)
Yeesh, what is that?

[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 06:30 am (UTC)(link)
It ain't a banana daiquiri ;)

[identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 07:32 am (UTC)(link)
We wouldn't want people to mistakenly thing it's a news channel.

[identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 08:04 am (UTC)(link)
Pure bliss, nothing more!

[identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 08:05 am (UTC)(link)
It passed through Satan's kidneys! That's why it's so delicious!

[identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 01:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Wasn't this point already preemptively answered in the OP's second to last paragraph?

[identity profile] johnny9fingers.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 01:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Just between you and me...weed is something that cuts across most political identities. Even some old-fashioned high culture mixed economy paternalist conservatives (with a small "c") like me are in favour of decriminalisation (and in my case, better supply).

:-)

[identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 04:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Varney is an awful person.



HOWELL: Do you think that federal workers, when this ends, are deserving of their back pay or not?

VARNEY: That is a loaded question isn't it? You want my opinion? This is President Obama's shutdown. He is responsible for shutting this thing down; he's taken an entirely political decision here. No, I don't think they should get their back pay, frankly, I really don't. I'm sick and tired of a massive, bloated federal bureaucracy living on our backs, and taking money out of us, a lot more money than most of us earn in the private sector, then getting a furlough, and then getting their money back at the end of it. Sorry, I'm not for that. I want to punish these people. Sorry to say that, but that's what I want to do.


The market of good and bad isn't working. Too many bad people have power and are using it to support bad things

[identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 04:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, and when it's pointed out, the obvious:



JACOBSON: But it's not their fault. It's not the federal employees' fault. I mean, that's what I'm sick of, I hate and it makes me anxious, to see people who are victimized because of a political fight.

VARNEY: I take your point Amy, it is not directly their fault, but I'm looking at the big picture here. I'm getting screwed. Here I am, a private citizen, paying an inordinate amount of money in tax. I've got a slow economy because it's all government, all the time. And these people are living on our backs, regulating us, telling us what to do, taxing us, taking our money, and living large. This is my chance to say "hey, I'm fed up with this and I don't miss you when you're on furlough." Sorry if that's a harsh tone, but that's the way I feel.

[identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com 2013-12-09 05:25 pm (UTC)(link)
nope, 2nd to last paragraph was preemptively skirting that position without directly addressing it; perhaps out of convenience.

All I did was clarify as reality what was dismissed as... er, an empty conservative excuse?

Not sure who is more entertaining: O'Reilly or the people who quote him, as if what he says has any substance.

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