An open letter from a dinosaur

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Dear Progressives,

Turn-about being fair play, I figured that I'd write a mirrior of Bean's post But where to start?


A couple months back Johnathan Korman wrote an excellent post on the poles of american politics. In it was the following line ...the correct social order is natural but not effortless — without devotion to the correct social order, conservatives believe we devolve into barbarism.

Do you genuinely believe that if you'd been transported back to fifteenth-century London as a baby, you'd realize all on your own that witch-burning was wrong, slavery was wrong, that every sentient being ought to be in your circle of concern? If so I'd like to know why,because as far as I can tell Homo Sapiens today are no more mentally capable than the Homo Sapiens of 500 years ago. I assert that our current high quality of life has more to do with culture and technology than it does with any inherent superiority to those who came before us. The fact of the matter is that we live in a civil society where, for the most part, people raise their kids to obey the law, pay their taxes, and generally not kill each-other without a damn good reason. It is this state of civility that conservatives seek to conserve.

The majority of these conservation efforts focus on individual and family responsibilities/virtue. They operate on the theory that if you want innovation you need to reward innovation. If you want virtue reward virtue. If you want stable kids reward stable families, because barbarity is never more than a generation or two away. If you want good social order we must reward virtue and punish vice.

It is in this space that intent runs head-long into perceived intent, and I start to turn into my grandad...

Using anfalicious' recent example, I am simply flabbergasted that a "post-gendered society" is even a topic of discussion outside of science fiction. Feminism has moved from arguing that women should be treated equal and have the same rights as men, etc... To that that men and women should be interchangeable. I am expected ignore the fact that the burden of reproduction is carried disproportionately by the female of the species. I am expected to ignore the differences in biology. To ignore the different strengths and weaknesses of both and how they compliment each other. I am expected to be genderless. I am not therefore I am a misogynist.

Global warming is based on computer models that keep failing. Catastrophic predictions are constantly proven wrong and (surprise, surprise) the only solution ever proposed is higher taxes and greater regulatory powers. I suspect that a dog is being wagged therefore I am a "denier".

I don't want to live in a world of "Honor Killings" and medieval torture and I refuse to coddle or kow-tow to those that do therefore I am a Islamiphobe.

I oppose gun control therefore I want children to die.

I support voter ID laws therefore I am a Racist.

Fascist.

Terrorist.

Killer.

I could go on...

These are labels that have been applied to me by my so-called intellectual and moral "betters" in an effort to shut me up.

I am a dinosaur. Hear me roar.

Comments

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Global warming is based on computer models that keep failing.

Going to need a citation for that one.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

The WSJ editorial page.

But I'm sure a long list of maverick scientists who aren't sheeple will be forthcoming with links to Watts Up with That, and assorted global warming-contrarian websites.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

East Anglia!

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

How about the data from the last decade that shows the model used by the IPCC has consistently predicted warming when none took place. Available here (http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/curry_less_warming_than_predicted_models_seem_wrong/).

The model does a great job of fitting to historical data but has been consistently terrible at predicting future temperatures.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Apparently, that was designed to be a negative that can't be proven. ;)

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

I don't want to live in a world of "Honor Killings" and medieval torture

I don't either, that's why I have been so vehemently against us water boarding and torturing our prisoners.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

They are not prisoners!

They are...whachamallits..

[dexeron.livejournal.com]

I am simply flabbergasted that a "post-gendered society" is even a topic of discussion outside of science fiction. Feminism has moved from arguing that women should be treated equal and have the same rights as men, etc... To that that men and women should be interchangeable.

Not really, at least not a majority of them.


I am expected ignore the fact that the burden of reproduction is carried disproportionately by the female of the species. I am expected to ignore the differences in biology. To ignore the different strengths and weaknesses of both and how they compliment each other. I am expected to be genderless

You're misunderstanding the difference between actual, physical and biological differences, and differences that only exist because they were created by societies and tradition. Only one of those two is objected to, and only objected to when they are expected to be followed, and punished when deviated from.


Global warming is based on computer models that keep failing.

Wrong.

Catastrophic predictions are constantly proven wrong

Wrong.

the only solution ever proposed is higher taxes and greater regulatory powers.

Wrong.

I am a "denier".

Well, if you have a better word to describe someone who denies proven facts...?

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

wait. All you did was diametrically contradict him without a hint of proof why you think he is wrong?

I know you can do better than that.

[brother-dour.livejournal.com]

I oppose gun control therefore I want children to die.

I support voter ID laws therefore I am a Racist.

Again: absolutes and matter of degrees are sometimes confused in the Liberal mind.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

Well, absolutes seem to be dwelling just fine inside the mind of the OP, that's for sure.

I'm not sure how morals comes into this definition.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

yeah well...labels and all, they really hurt. But I wonder about your definition of 'conservative' because it differs from mine.

from Merry ole Merriam: at the root, the word conservative means one who conserves (duh). What does conserve mean exactly?
to keep in a safe or sound state [he conserved his inheritance]; especially: to avoid wasteful or destructive use of [conserve natural resources]
The whole conserve natural resources irony (Drill baby, drill!, strip mining, fracking, timber felling et al) is not lost here.

What I see as a 'true' conservative, as opposed to a Republican Voter, is one who wishes to keep government safe (from radical ideas that would not work, as opposed to radical ideas that will)..

and sound (without too cumbersome a level of law that impinges on individual rights supposedly honored by the sitting government by rule of the US constitution)

A conservative is one who wants to avoid unnecessary waste (in the policy form of wasted tax revenue on plans that do not provide long term solutions), as well as avoid the destructive powers a government can muster against enemies without and it's people within.

Your definition is too vague. Just WHO gets to set the standard for what is 'virtuous'? Which holy book is the standard for setting the defining morals of conservative society, the KJV? The Koran? The Torah?

No sir, the moralists are not conservatives in my eye, they are those who I regrettably label 'the right wing', 'the GOP', 'the Moral Majority'.

Regrettable only that labels are the easiest way to keep us divided and bickering.

I can respect your opinion of what a conservative is, but I'd rather think it better to keep an eye on government, rather than on how your neighbor is living their life.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Is some of this the difference between fiscal and social conservatives? I know there's the ones who would like to just focus on the government, but at the same time there are those that want to preserve at all costs the idea of the Christian Nation and scale back any influence our diverse population has had on it. You know, those darn gays, Muslims, athiests etc.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Actually, if you were doing this the other way around, you would be calling out the Democrats for their hypocrisy. Instead it's the GOP Victimhood Complex again.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Indeed, from the title I was expecting to see some diatribe on the liberals' double-faced double-standards and transgressions (and sure the OP could've come up with many) - but instead, what I got was a lot of complaining and excuses.

*iz disappoint*

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

I am expected ignore the fact that the burden of reproduction is carried disproportionately by the female of the species. I am expected to ignore the differences in biology. To ignore the different strengths and weaknesses of both and how they compliment each other. I am expected to be genderless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I am reminded of an incident that occurred when women naval recruits had to go through the same degrading hazing rituals as the men. Men would never complain about that kind of thing because divulging the details of the hazing would be an additional degradation.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

If you want good social order we must reward virtue and punish vice.

And same-sex marriage, is of course, a society-destroying phenomenon, originating from a dangerous vice, therefore it should be fought with all means. Right?

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

Roar? More like moan.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

and piss

piss and moan

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

What, you want no gun control whatsoever?

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

reward virtue and punish vice

The penis is evil the gun is good

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I can assure you that people in the 16th century knew that those various things were wrong. And they fought them. And they protested against them. And they were right and every one else was wrong, knowingly so, guilty consciences and all.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Eventually they figured out that the whole not-bathing thing really sucked too.

[vitsli.livejournal.com]

Look upon the Infamous Perjurer! the Montana Thief! the Body-Snatcher! Contemplate your incarnate Delirium Tremens! your Filthy Corruptionist! your Loath some Embracer! Gaze upon him — ponder him well — and then say if you can give your honest votes to a creature who has earned this dismal array of titles by his hideous crimes, and dares not open his mouth in denial of any one of them!


Logical argument isn't the most effective way to conduct a public discussion; it's the loudest who scores a decisive victory in points.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

No false pride, no undue shame. If the shoes fit, wear them, otherwise, carry on. Living right is its own reward. You don't do it for external recognition, but internal. I do it so I can sleep at night.



May the fruit of our labors repay the debts of our existence.

[joshthevegan.livejournal.com]

I'm just here to applaud the King Crimson choice.

[404.livejournal.com]

Why am I not surprised that after the OP was posted, that the chorus of dissenters arrived quickly and are supporting each other. I'm very concerned that it's always the same ones, and they consistently do so.

/snark

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Yep. Consistency: a concept so incomprehensible and alien to certain segments of the political spectrum, isn't it?

Your utter concern has been duly noted, as usual - as has been the lack of actual arguments on the subject at hand. Again, as usual.

/snark-back ;)

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

So where was the "mirror" of Bean's post? What you did was nothing of the sort. Where's the calling out liberals on their hypocrisy? Where's the tough moral questions about liberal double standard and all the related issues that emerge from that? This wasn't a mirror post, it was an apologetic retort.

And I was hoping you'd really grill some liberals here. :/

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Fair enough.

[paft.livejournal.com]

s: I don't want to live in a world of "Honor Killings" and medieval torture and I refuse to coddle or kow-tow to those that do therefore I am a Islamiphobe.

If you define "coddling" as "allowing Muslims to build mosques," "advocating legal sanctions against people for being Muslim" or "refraining from torturing Muslim prisoners" yes, you qualify as an Islamaphobe.

s: I oppose gun control therefore I want children to die.

I doubt this is a frequent argument you hear from gun control advocates. More likely, what people have done is point out the number of kids who get killed by carelessly stored or fired guns.

s: I support voter ID laws therefore I am a Racist.

If that support is based in large part on the premise that black people are somehow more prone to voter fraud than white people, and is accompanied by the belief that black people as a group are inferior, whether culturally or genetically, yes, you would qualify as a racist.

s: These are labels that have been applied to me by my so-called intellectual and moral "betters" in an effort to shut me up.

Would you like a little cheese with that whine?

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

. . . if you want innovation you need to reward innovation.

I think you're referring to the capitalist system of financial reward for work performed and risk taken. Sadly, it turns out that giving people money is a good way to demotivate them.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Anyone who works a job in the tech industry like I do can affirm the truth of this.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I was under the impression that conservatives did not so much support the reward of traditional families as they do the brutalization of non-traditional families. One of the problems with the Roman definition of "barbarian" is that it applies to everyone who does not fit a rigid paradigm of what is considered to be positive. Also, conservatives tend to oppose innovation when it leads to the advancement of people other than themselves.

I do not think that people call you a fascist in order to shut you up. It probably simply reflects a value system that rejects fascism.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Conservatism 500 years ago would consider this idea to be Satanic lies of the Evil Prince of the Power of the Air and had you hung, drawn, and quartered for questioning God's agents on Earth.

[usekh.livejournal.com]

Who gets to define virtue and vice?

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Good question.