Another story of Syria

[dexeron.livejournal.com]

Jon Stewart returned last night, and the talk of the day was, of course, Syria (and he, of course, tried to inject a little humor into the situation.) However, the interview segment with which he closed out the show was anything but humorous, bringing in Andrew Harper, the head of the United Nations Refugee Agency in Jordan. This is the important story, in my opinion: the story of millions of people displaced from their homes, many of them women and children. It's also the story of nations such as Jordan who are doing what they can to provide a safe haven for some of these people, and the incredible work being done by the UN, an organization that is so often derided by folks here in the U.S., but which does certain things very well; this is one of them.

Any discussion of our response to the situation in Syria should involve the discussion of how we can help these people. While we're talking about what message we should send to the Assad regime, or whether or not we should act militarily, and in which way, here is an obvious human crisis where we could all put our money where our mouths are. I'd prefer to see this story given the lion's share of airtime on our cable news stations, over constant redundant talking heads debating back and forth on questions of chemical weapons and factions and military responses and political calculus.

Here's the interview, in two parts:

If the embedding doesn't work for some reason, here are direct links:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-3-2013/exclusive---andrew-harper-extended-interview-pt--1

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-3-2013/exclusive---andrew-harper-extended-interview-pt--2

Comments

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

Harper points out that this is not just a civil war. He does not mention the role that regional power centers have played. Assad and his security people are not solely responsible for the violence of the situation. I would like to see more humanitarian assistance coming from Riyadh and Tel Aviv.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

I don't know what you did, but BOTH videos simultaneously play as soon as I load my friends page.

Put behind LJ-cut or something, please.

[dexeron.livejournal.com]

Done. Didn't realize it was a problem, since they weren't autoplaying for me. Not sure why LJ is always so wonky with video embedding. Hopefully the cut will fix it.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

agh! autoplay!

[dwer.livejournal.com]

Having watched... yes. We should be helping with this as well. Absolutely.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

When you say to yourself, "Let's move our family to Iraq, its safer than where we are now", you are in a fucked situation.

Absolutely we should help with the refugees above and beyond any military actions.

Here:

Displaced but finding new purpose in Jordan's Zaatari camp (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/Olive-Press/2013/0903/Displaced-but-finding-new-purpose-in-Jordan-s-Zaatari-camp)

Syria's refugee crisis 'a humanitarian calamity' (http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/syrias-refugee-crisis-a-humanitarian-calamity)

As Syrian refugees flood Lebanon, security worries grow (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/03/201098/as-syrian-refugees-flood-lebanon.html)

Syrian neighbours brace for refugees fleeing US strike (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2013\09\04\story_4-9-2013_pg4_7)

Fearing US missiles, Syrians escape to Lebanon (http://news.yahoo.com/fearing-us-missiles-syrians-escape-lebanon-150606270.html)

Syrians fearful of attacks, face tight Lebanese border controls (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebanon-News/2013/Aug-30/229262-syrians-fearful-of-attacks-face-tight-lebanese-border-controls.ashx)

With Focus on U.S.-Led Strikes, Global Failure to Meet Syria’s Humanitarian Crisis Goes Unnoticed (http://www.democracynow.org/2013/9/4/with_focus_on_us_led_strikes):

"The United Nations has revealed the number of refugees who have fled Syria has topped two million. The tide of children, women and men leaving Syria has risen almost tenfold over the past 12 months. On average, almost 5,000 people take refuge in Syria’s neighboring countries every day. The U.N. warned last month the war is fueling the worst refugee crisis since the Rwanda genocide in ’94. Two million refugees have fled Syria, half of them to neighboring Lebanon. Jordan hosts over 500,000, and there are tens of thousands in Turkey. Overall, the fighting in Syria has killed more than 100,000 people since 2011. More than 7,000 children have died."

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

The issue with military action, and this pertains to Syrian refugees, is how to not create many more refugees by widening (http://news.yahoo.com/-obama-puts-twin-syria-sales-pitches-into-high-gear--152634247.html) and prolonging (http://www.juancole.com/2013/09/attack-syria-prolong.html) the conflict. What do we do (http://www.stripes.com/news/limiting-action-to-missile-strikes-in-syria-could-prove-difficult-analysts-say-1.238355) when we create a power vacuum (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/31/uk-syria-crisis-rebels-strike-idUKBRE97U06520130831) that ends up being worse for the Syrian people (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/27/the-one-map-that-shows-why-syria-is-so-complicated/). Limited strikes are likely to be absorbed and the martyrs will embolden Assad (http://abcnews.go.com/International/syrian-rebels-us-hit-hard/story?id=20142137), and then regime change will be next choice (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/03/obama-strategy-assad-republicans-syria).

And worse for the refugees, why have we abandoned diplomacy (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/ap-source-us-russia-meeting-syria-canceled-20076820)? Now is the time for talks (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/jimmy-carter-syria-peace-summit-96087.html), not silence.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Better described today as a regional proxy war (http://www.democracynow.org/2013/9/3/could_us_military_action_turn_syrian).

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

This is the only thing we should be doing with regards to Syria.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

It's such a difficult thing because, no we are not ready to go to war with yet another region in this half of the world. No, bombing is not going to help anyone. But at the same time it's difficult as hell to ignore what's going on over there... It really puts things in perspective that if Jordan can accept more refugees when they're still having to take care of other neighbors, surely Americans can sacrifice something of our money and resources to help the Syrian people.

[brother-dour.livejournal.com]

The UN is great at responding to humanitarian crises. It is terrible at preventing said crises from occurring.

I think the UN would work perfectly if it were disbanded and reformed- but next time, let's not invite China and Russia.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Our allies:

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

I sincerely hope that this all part of some elaborate joke that progressives have decided to pull on the rest of the world and that they are only acting like neo-cons to be Ironic.

If not I think they owe GWB an apology.

[dexeron.livejournal.com]

Is concern for the plight of refugees a specifically neo-conservative value?

---

With regards to the larger Syria question, I think the primary difference between the neo-conservative (under GWB) response and the "progressive" one is best expressed in the hesitation displayed by many progressives over the proper course to take. However, finally agreeing that miilitary action may need to be taken isn't the sole purview of "neo-conservatives." The main difference is that neocons don't bother to question the need before jumping into the fray.

Remember, when we went into Afghanistan, there was very little opposition, even among progressives, because the case was well laid out that those who had attacked us were in that country, and many agreed that something had to be done in response. Yes, some others simply wanted revenge. But overall, agreeing with entry into that nation had nothing to do with neo-conservative or progressive politics.

Likewise when we were led to believe that Iraq had an Al-Qaeda connection and/or WMD, many progressives were willing to go in. It was after the intelligence was proved to be (knowingly or unknowingly) false that the anti-war movement really kicked in among progressives. Many of us are not anti-war. We are anti-needless war.

Thusly, in the case of Syria, what you are seeing among progressives is a lot of questioning:

-Do we trust that, this time, the intelligence is correct?
-Will acting militarily actually help?
-Will failing to act be worse?
-Is there another option?

I'm not seeing any progressives chanting "BOMB BOMB BOMB, BOMB BOMB SYRIA!" I'm seeing a lot balking at the idea of any type of military intervention, and among those who do favor it, a lot of caveats and moral questions being floated. I've very rarely seen that kind of self-examination among neo-conservatives when it comes to questions of war. So I'm not sure what rhetorical point you think has been made by "progressives" happening to be in power when a potential overseas conflict occurs.

I sure as hell am not going to apologize to a President whose incompetence (or, perhaps, lies) led us into a war on false pretenses, and whose bungling administration then turned a "welcome with open arms" victory into a sectarian clusterfuck that took millions of Iraqi lives, and thousands of ours.

tl;dr version: false equivalency is false.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

And we're still not off to occupy anybody.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

I would like to see more humanitarian assistance coming from Riyadh and Tel Aviv.

You left out Moscow. And Beijing.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

The US has allowed...2000 refugees to emigrate here (so far children and women), but seriously they can up that number by a factor of ten, can't they?

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

Fawaz Gerges is optimistic that US intervention will lead to an escalation of the regional conflict and help to bolster the reputation of Assad in the region.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

I don't care for the authoritarian Assad, nor the right wing rebels, so its an odd "optimism" from where I sit.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

With the money it takes to conduct military operations, I should think so.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

The word optimism relates to a high degree of pessimism.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

We need to up by a factor of 1000.

(http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=45757)

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=45757

[telemann.livejournal.com]

No argument there.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Is concern for the plight of refugees a specifically neo-conservative value?

No but the Idea that it's US's duty to act as world superhero/policeman certainly is. If this were really about the plight of the refugees we wouldn't be talking about cruise missiles, we'd be talking about peace-keepers, and large-scale evacuations/amnesty.

As for the rest of your argument, Progressives may not be chanting "Bomb Syria" but they aint exactly protesting it either. The coffee shop's got NPR on right now and majority of their callers and talking heads are supportive. In short where are all the posters labeled Chimpy-McHitler with Obama's face on them? If they are out there I haven't seen one. The moral side of the argument might have held water if we were actually talking about deposing Assad but we're not. What the president has proposed is tossing a live grenade into a crowded room and then walking away, and I suspect that the only reason he want to do that is that he painted himself into a corner with talk of "red lines". That such a proposal is being seriously considered is in my opinion very telling.

Finally even if you disagree with the characterization and values I think that wanting to take a side in a supposed battle of good vs evil is an easier sell than killing to make a political point. I don't think you realize just how bad arguing for option B in that equation makes after spending so many years lecturing everyone about the need to claim the moral high ground looks.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

We're not even trying to depose Assad or stop the slaughter.