Even more Wankery that we find acceptable...

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

While I generally disagree with his politics I think Mr. Savage raises an excellent point.

Now consider this...

Bill Maher and NYT's David Carr the "Middle Places" and "Low-Sloping Foreheads".

I apologise for linking as I seem to be having trouble embedding the video.

Now I would assume that both men in the second video consider themselves to be reasonably intelligent and enlightened men. If accused of being racist or bigoted I would imagine that they would be properly offended.

Which is why I'm going to ask an uncomfortable question, why is it ok to disparage one socio-political/ethnic class as stupid, dangerous, useless, ect... but not another. Would his comments have been more or less offensive had he been talking about "Fags" "Twats" "Spics" "Wops" "Chinks" or *Gasp* "N*ggers"?

Discuss.

Comments

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Does that mean that black black jokes that focus on watermelon, basketball, and affirmative action are ok?

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

No because as a black person you cannot claim to be not-black.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

But a religious person can claim to not be religious?

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

Yes.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

There are those who would disagree but I don't feel like invoking Godwin at this juncture.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Interesting.

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

Just like an atheist can pretend to be religious. There is no way to read anyone's mind.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

how you know?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Inside the USA? You mean Italians, right?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

(Hope) It gets better.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting statement. Where I come from there are plenty of people who are culturally black, but can easily pass for white. They identify as black because they went through the same policies of apartheid as the ones who look black did. There is something to be said about a shared suffering.

Having said that, given that shared suffering, it's hard for them to not be black.

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

If they do not look black, they could claim not to be black.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

So your solution would be to tell people to shut up an conform?

Likewise, are you saying that if it were advantagous for me to pretend to be jewish (to gain access to a scolarship for example) it would be permitable for me to do so?

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

No, you are misreading just about everything so far.

I din't want to take here but...

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

How so?

Your argument seems to hinge on the fact that black people can not pretend to be "not black".

Therefore it seems that if members of one class can pass as members of another than it is ok to target them.

By that reasoning the targeting of individuals on religious grounds is acceptable.

Re: I din't want to take here but...

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

If a stereotypical joke is made about rednecks, one can exclude oneself from the class of rednecks by depersonalization. E.g. It's not me he's joking about. Or the stereotype can be owned by the listener. E.g. Yeah, that's redneck and aren't we funny. This is possible because the extent of ones association with the class of rednecks is voluntary. This is true for any voluntary class.

If a stereotypical joke is made based on race or ethnicity, one cannot exclude oneself from the class because it isn't voluntary. It is part of your makeup, hence it cannot be depersonalized.

Religion is a voluntary class. It is something you choose to believe, it isn't inherent in your makeup. You are free to choose some other religion, or none, or parts of a religion, or parts of differing religions. Religion is in the realm of ideation and therefore subject to challenge and ridicule.