They just don't get it...

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

It turns out that a British diplomat turned up at the border and asked to be taken to rebel commanders in Libya. he had with him a detail from the SAS, a crack British Special Forces outfit, similar to the American Delta Force, only with stiffer upper lips and no chewing gum to hand out.

Anyways, the Libyan commanders didn't ask for, and didn't want any forign troops involved in what they see as 'their' struggle against Gaddaffi. So they captured the SAS guys and threw them into the brig, only releasing them unharmed once they had got the british diplomat out of their country.

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/03/05/libyan-rebels-capture-british-sas-unit/

So, there you have it. The Libyans are asking for a UN backed intervention in their struggle.
They want the UN , not the UK or the USA to send in any ground troops.

Seeing as if the rebels win, they are going to have to go to their own people and say that' we are not the sellouts to Western Powers like Gaddaffi was ( remember that the jets and tanks he is currently using to murder his own people were supplied by the same people who want to start an invasion) - well , i think it is only fair that they should be the ones who set the terms on how Gaddaffi is otten rid of. Ok, he has to go, nd his own people are the ones to take him down.

Ii don't see the military dictators and undemocratic despots who rule Arab League countries being very enthusiastic about establishing a bit more democracy in the world , somehow - esp. in a place like Libya.

And that leaves the UN. So, what is the UN for? UK/USA forces have basically been acting like the military wing of their countries corporate interests of late. i don't blame the Libyans for telling the SAS that they were unwelcome.

I do think that the Libyans have every right to appeal to the international community, via the UN , which pledges itself to uphold human rights , to which they belong , to give them a hand by way of enforcing a no fly zone and supporting the Libyan Ground forces with airstrikes on Gaddaffis mercenaries, together with his tanks and artillery.

I am suprised that the UK Government didn't get it that the age of gunboat diplomacy is over, but what else can we expect of ex public schoolboys like 'Call Me Dave'? Cameron and his cronies in the British foriegn office 'just don't get it' - but I hope that someone out there in the wider world does, and does what the rebels are begging the international community to give them without delay.

But if you disagree with the idea of airstrikes, and the Libyans are not going to co operate with any foriegn troops that they regard as 'invaders', then what role or position do we want the UN to adopt here? It has been said in this community that ' this is not what the UN is for - well, ok, what should it be doing instead?

Comments

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Ah. So this is why the international community's stopped Cambodia, Rwanda, Darfur, the aftermath of the two wars in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, what happened to the Azeris, Pakistan in Bangladeshi in 1971, the Miskito Genocide, and all the other little odds and ends like that since 1945, has it?

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

So just because we didn't do everything good we shouldn't do anything good?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Well, looking at the probability that Seoul might be dealt a 1945-level bloodbath because we cocked up the last attempt like this, I should hardly wish more fates like that *anywhere* in the world. It is not just to our soldiers who fight, but more crucially it's not just to the people of the country we fight our wars for empire in.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

I think it will be more like Genghis Khan invading China personally.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Incorrect, he won that war despite being in theory not supposed to do that. The North Koreans have less chance than a snowball in Hell.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

That snowball had China propping them up.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Actually China only entered the war when we decided to go for broke and went right up to the Yalu when they warned us not to, and they *attacked us to make us realize they meant it and we ignored that*.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

lolno. The Soviet Union and China armed and propped up the communists in N. Korea which is why they thought they could go jump the south and win.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

In the sense that they gave them nukes while we gave South Korea none, sure. They were willing, even to see Kim Il Sung win a cheap, easy war because it seemed the USA really didn't give a damn about Korea. The war that resulted was a Comedy of Errors that turned into a bleeding abcess for the Korean people and technically is not over yet.

D

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

*tanks, not nukes. Was thinking of something different.

That should be D'oh:

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Well, China and the USSR started N. Korea's military, they trained them, gave them military schools, modern weapons, etc. Even before we were directly fighting the Chineses and got our keesters kicked, it was a proxy war of superpowers.

Point is! Libya has no such sugardaddy.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Er.....the Soviets divided Korea in 1945, when the Chinese Communists had to fight three years of civil war to cement control of the mainland. The Soviets decided to create their own regime in Korea, the PRC didn't even exist by the time North Korea was consolidated and has always been...ambiguous...at best with friendship toward that regime.

And even then they didn't move to war south of the Yalu until MacArthur went up there in the first place.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

The (U.S. and) Soviets divided Korea. The Korean army started from members of the Chinese army back during WWII against Japan who was occupying Korea. so there! :P Anyways, this is getting off the topic quite far.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Yes, it is. I would note, however, that the North Korean Army already existed beforehand and it got much larger and suited to attack after 1949, when Mao sent a lot of his Korean veterans to Kim Il Sung's Korea. This is rather off-topic, though, so I'm willing to close this sub-thread if you are.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

'fo shizzle, yo!

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

All the same, with the headache that the North represents to modern China, one might think that had they only known then, they'd say screw 'em and wash their hands of it.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Pretty much.