Cops and Teachers? THEY Don't Pay Taxes!

[paft.livejournal.com]

Wisconsin State Assemblyman Robin Vos lets us all know what he thinks of those taxpaying Wisconsin citizens who work in the public sector:

The reality is they haven’t had to pay for these things, they’re upset about doing it now, and the taxpayers are the ones who definitely understand this because they get it, they’ve been doing this in the private sector for years, it’s time we had the same thing happen in the public sector…The fact that my Democratic colleagues want to go back to the taxpayer and have them pay higher taxes because someone shouldn’t pay 12% towards their healthcare….We are standing with the taxpayers all across Wisconsin. It’s amazing the outpouring of support that we’ve been getting from the people outside the Capitol Square, the people who are in the reality of the world, not the place that we’re sitting.

Howard Dean does a very good job of refuting Kudlow and Vos’ fiction that the demonstrations are all about the cuts in benefits and not about the elimination of collective bargaining. The capper to this exchange, however, comes near the end of the segment, when a sign appears just over Vos’ shoulder on the right. Not the kind of thing Kudlow could choreograph.

It beautifully highlights the idiocy of Vos' fiction that the demonstrators are, in some fundamental way, less American than other Americans. Does he really think cops and teachers don't pay taxes, or “live in the reality of the world?”

Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes
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Comments

Re: What we need is some:

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that the party of big business trying to curtail the rights of workers to organise is class warfare.

The world is broken when it's only class warfare when the workers fight back.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

I like how these protests are destroying democracy, but the Tea Party ones are FFFRRRREEEEEEEEEDDDDOOOOMMM

actually the question was about the politicians fleeing the state to prevent a vote from taking place.

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

No, because I haven't seen "skilled and experienced employees" leave their jobs when management decides to wage cut or have unpaid mandatory overtime or what not. They know they'll be financially fucked if they leave, so they stick with it. 10 firings? Maybe 1. Or 2.

Re: What we need is some:

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

No, your confused. When the GOP fucks workers over it's not class warfare--it's economic policy.

When workers strike, it's class warfare.

And the world keeps spinning

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The truly horrible bit about his wanting to play at Victorianism is that this deficit would not exist if he wasn't trying to cut taxes *and* maintain the existing infrastructure, if without means to pay for it. Had Wisconsin retained ordinary tax levels this issue would not exist. It does not, and so a governor wanting to use soldiers on strikers is hailed as a champion of liberty and justice for all. His actions also violate the Wagner Act, but then the GOP only cares about Law and Order when out of power.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

They've also spent decades trading wages for benefits so that governments of the day could have now, pay later. Now it's later...

Let this be a lesson to workers, take the wages today, even if it bankrupts the company, there will be no tomorrow when it comes to benefits.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The problem with this is the Wagner Act. So much for "We want law and order." You only care about it when Republicans are out of power.

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

Like I said, it's not fearmongering if it's plausible (and it is). All the quotes from FDR won't change that.

[paft.livejournal.com]

It is most certainly the case in the US.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

state laws.

When private companies offer poor compensation, workers are free to search for other jobs in different companies. On the other hand, if legislatures are strapped for cash and change state laws such that they can save money by damaging working conditions for public employees, there is no balance in the market. Public employees can't search for another government to work for (or at least not nearly as easily as private workers can look for another company), so there isn't any check on the power of the state government to change its mind about how they want to treat these employees (other than unions, of course).

yes, i trust the principals, administrators, teachers, and citizens.

No, you are essentially trusting elected officials that draw up budgets to treat public employees well. It is just a leap of faith. Like I described above, public employees don't obey all the same economic laws as private ones. Legislatures aren't subject to the forces of the market and can change their mind about how they treat their employees at their own whim (or the whim of their constituency).

[paft.livejournal.com]

Unions are a significant shield between ALL workers and the sweatshop.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

Now it's later...

An Enron analogy is in here somewhere.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Why extremely unlikely? And without a union, what recourse would workers have?

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Also home-schooled?

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

yeah, im sure thats what they tell you to get your union dues.

[paft.livejournal.com]

It's what history has taught us.

And I'm not in a union.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

Why extremely unlikely?

because principals and administrators aren't in the sweatshop business.

what recourse would workers have?

i don't know, the electorate?

[paft.livejournal.com]

Even sarcasm is supposed to have some connection to reality.

Debergerac just makes stuff up.

[paft.livejournal.com]

w: because principals and administrators aren't in the sweatshop business.

I see. Educators will have to rely on the goodness of the boss' heart.

And of course, NOBODY has ever ended up underpaid or overworked based on that touching article of faith...

paft: what recourse would workers have?
w: i don't know, the electorate?

And how did that work in the past?

Re: Here's your Clue-x-Four

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

That doesn't really answer the question.

reproductive health is legislated against receiving funding for on any other level

Citation needed.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

If you don't know it, then maybe you aren't human.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

No, they're small crowds. And I suppose we should be impressed that they illegally called out of work to show up?

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

When private companies offer poor compensation, workers are free to search for other jobs in different companies

and people are forced to teach in public schools? who knew?!

if legislatures are strapped for cash and change state laws such that they can save money by damaging working conditions for public employees

honestly, you sound desperate. if they are strapped for cash, they're going to lay off teachers. you really think they want to deal with a PR nightmare?

Public employees can't search for another government to work for

and by golly they can't work in the private sector.

so there isn't any check on the power of the state government to change its mind about how they want to treat these employees

its called the electorate. ever heard of it?

you are essentially trusting elected officials that draw up budgets to treat public employees well

no, im trusting principals, administrators, teachers, and citizens. the teachers union just skims of the paychecks and gets in the way of education.

It is just a leap of faith.

democracy is a leap of faith.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

if you actually believe that this bill in Wisconsin is going to bring back a 10 hour workday, you have some serious issues to work out.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

This is the funniest spin I think I've ever seen on this. It doesn't even pass the smell test.