http://green-man-2010.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] green-man-2010.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] talkpolitics2010-04-21 06:23 pm
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International Week - a fairer deal for the developing world.

Ok dudes, sorry to post on the wrong topic last time - so here's myr take on the international situation for International Week.

A lot of Brits are up in arms about immigration. i was on the doorstep this morning, canvassing for the Greens when a man points out to me that 5 houses in his street  were sold recently - and only one went to an English family. he said it like this was some sort of problem, and confirmed it with a rant about foreigners.

Now, it caused a stir in the 50s when we suddenly have a boatload of Afro Carribean  people turn up in England on the boat The Windrush .
These men were invited over by the government  - basically to do the jobs the white people did not want. we also got lots of nurses coming over from abroad. this meant that the countries they came from were suddenly short of nurses, but what the hell - we were brits and we could pay them more than their own country.

But what really kicked things off was the expulsoin of many middle class Asians ( Indians and pakistanis ) from Uganda. As they were Commonwealth citizens, the Uk too them in. And then we had the Somalis...
So now, we have had wave after wave of refugees settling in the UK.  In some areas, the local white population is outnumbered, but immigration of this nature is mainly in the cities. go to the smaller towns and the rural areas of the Uk , and  the population is mainly white, but in some areas, racial tension is high because he white people resent being in a minority on the streets and in the schools.

But why do people come to the UK anyway? The fact that we run a Welfare state is only part of the answer. look at what goes on in Somalia, and you see a complete breakdown in law and order. make no mistake, civil war, poverrty and extreme conditions lead many to flee their country of origin and settle elsewhere.

If you open the kitchen door and find the sink overflowing, there is no point grabbing a mop, or trying to bail out with a bucket. it makes more sense to turn off the tap first of all.  Rather than invest in Border police and vote for tougher legislation on immigration, the Greens argue that  the causes of ecological and economic disasters abroad should be addressed as a matter of urgency.

Britain , like many countires, sells arms abroad. In fact it is a principle export. rather than making the world a safer place, it fills the world with refugees fleeing the conflicts that rage in their native lands. Our rampant consumerism is also pushing poorer nations deeper into poverty.
Sweat shop labour in the far east means that tee shirts are cheap on the UK high street,  but that poor people get little reward for their hard work in their own country. this also spurs many to smuggle themselves into the UK.

So, Greens say that international treaties that protect workers rights and limit the deadly arms trade are the only effective ways to limit the supply of illegal immigrants. The Berlin Wall did not keep people fleeing to the west, and the Border Police will not keep out the refugees who continue to flee the developing world and the problems they face there.

On the other hand, if we fix those problems,  in the long term , this will mean fewer illegal immigrants.  So, we advocate -
Support for democratic movements and Trade Union rights for workers in places where they have not got them.
A limiit on arms exports
A change in the way that muultinationals are allowed to operate in developing nations, and trade rules that alllow local economies to grow instead of being exploited.
Implementing the Tobin Tax - preventing  greedy speculators from exploiting weaker currencies.

The better we can make life for people in Somalia and places like it,  the less we will be concerned with migrants sneaking through our borders, the less we will hear of piracy off the coast of West Africa, and the less we will see of racial tension in our societies.

[identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com 2010-04-21 09:40 pm (UTC)(link)
'Who 'the wrong people' are is generally pretty subjective and actually the fundamental issue of many conflicts.'

As long as we teeter on who is right and who is wrong, we'll keep having conflict.

[identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com 2010-04-21 10:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Everything Is Black Or White!

You Are Either With Us Or Against Us U.S.!

[identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com 2010-04-21 10:35 pm (UTC)(link)
When a genocide or ethnic cleansing is under way, it's not difficult to figure out who is the bad guy.

[identity profile] spaz-own-joo.livejournal.com 2010-04-21 10:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Apparently it is, because to my knowledge not one genocide has ever been halted by the bad guys realizing they are bad guys.

[identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com 2010-04-22 01:05 am (UTC)(link)
That would be correct. The ones that tended to end, ended by others realizing it though and doing something about it.

[identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com 2010-04-22 12:14 am (UTC)(link)
And those freedom fighters are terrorists. Except when they're on our side.

[identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com 2010-04-22 01:04 am (UTC)(link)
So... tire necklacing... morally pragmatic?

[identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com 2010-04-22 09:17 am (UTC)(link)
Waterboarding? Dogs? Funny pics with pyramids of nude men?

[identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com 2010-04-21 10:45 pm (UTC)(link)
As long as we constantly sustain an absolutist position of us(good) vs them(evil) we will keep having conflict.

[identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com 2010-04-22 12:07 am (UTC)(link)
Things don't work that way.

Is a religious fanatic killing someone in the name of their religion good or bad. If you call it bad, will it go away?

[identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com 2010-04-22 12:11 am (UTC)(link)
It's because they're absolutists just like you that they feel they're authorized to be killing all the 'evil' people.

[identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com 2010-04-22 01:03 am (UTC)(link)
No. The righteousness one person feels is completely independent of the feelings of others. You think Muslim extremists don't already see things in black and white?

Oh if only that lout Theo Van Gogh would have been more tolerant, he'd not have had his throat slit by the morally pragmatic Islamicist!

[identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com 2010-04-22 06:39 am (UTC)(link)
I think they see things in black and white just like you do.

[identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com 2010-04-22 12:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Non-sequitor.