talkpolitics | A little bit of gender, money, authenticity

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A little bit of gender, money, authenticity

So yes, this is going to be personal. But then again, everything is personal when you are a person.

The other night I was hanging out with my gf and two of her friends--who happen to be a gay couple. Very nice people.** As we were leaving I saw The Portable Marx on their bookshelf and asked to borrow it; they lent it to me with a "if that doesn't come back, I really won't mind" so I now have a new book to work through; and I will be posting snippits here and there of it, since I fear that Marx is much misunderstood. (I'm lookin at you Steve&co)

But Marx isn't what I want to talk about today. Today there's another issue to bring up. As we left, we went downstairs and I went into a store to buy some cigarettes. Here in NYC they are quite pricey. So I got a pack and some other small item, came to $11.50. So I give him a 10 and two singles, my gf and I walk outside and are discussing the quickest way to get back to her place. Some 20 seconds later a middle aged white guy comes out of the store, asks if I just bought cigs from there, and when I say I did, he grabs my arm and starts pulling me back inside.

I never saw this man before in my life, but wanted to know what was up, so I went inside without fighting him. (tho his grabbing of my arm was a definite warning sign of: WTF is up with this guy) I go inside and what am I told?

I just used counterfeit money!

I had no idea. I never check my bills to see that they are real; I get change from a store, make sure the bills have the right amount on em, put em in my wallet and keep going. This pattern of mine has now changed.

See, the store owner just wanted real money; he asked if I had a card or something to pay for the cigs with. I did, but just wanted to get out of there, since the fellow who grabbed my arm and pulled me inside was standing there sorta bitching at me for it. "People get their ass kicked around here for that sort of thing man. What you trying to do? You know I could have you arrested right now" meanwhile, the guy beyond the counter was in no way hostile, but I wanted to get out of there, so I gave him the cigs back and took the fake 10 and started leaving the store. The guy said: "we're gonna talk outside" and he walks out infront of me.

He starts bitching at me some more, and I just keep telling him: "I didn't know it was fake. I had no idea. What do you want from me? I didn't know, he has his cigs back, give it a break." meanwhile he isn't stopping, and I can kinda smell booze on his breath.

At this point, my gf (who is infinitely smarter than I) takes my hand and starts walking away from the store and the drunk-bitching guy. In order to break our hand-holding walk, he pushes her, not hard enough to knock her down but enough to make her take a step back.

At this point I flip my attitude from: "sorry I just gave that guy fake money without knowing it" to "WHAT THE FUCK, DONT DO THAT" fortunately for me, a large latino guy who was crossing the street towards the store, saw what was going on, saw the man push my gf, comes up behind the man, grabs him by the shoulders and says something like: "What the hell are you doing? Don't EVER disrespect a woman like that." at this point again my gf takes my hand we start walking away. Both of us very much so shaken up.

So, as I said, this is personal. But it connects to the troublesome question of fake money.

It's only after the fact that I noticed how the fake 10 differed from a real 10. It's a pretty good fake; only things missing are the watermark and the security bar. It also feels a little different to the touch, but other than that, it's spot on.

So two questions:

While I am glad there was the chivalrous stranger present, do you think anybody would have stepped in to help a gay couple dealing with the same thing? (I doubt it)
What makes money, to you, real? (to me, it is as simple as others accepting it. Had the fake 10 been accepted, I never woulda known, and it woulda been perfectly real money to me)

And lastly: I find it odd that when one group of people prints stuff on paper, that paper has great weight. When another group prints almost the exact same stuff on paper, that paper is deemed fake/worthless. And it can almost get you or a loved one into a fight that you prolly don't want. So y'all be careful out there.

~Namaste

[and just to preview the future stuff on Marx:

"Like Christianity both Marxism and Marxism-Leninism speak in the name of their founder more often than they speak with his voice. Their sacred texts are not confined to the writings of Marx.
....Engels--the true founder of 'Marxism'--was elevated, partly by himself, to the status of co-prophet and intellectual alter ego of Marx.....Marx himself once proclaimed that he was no 'Marxist'" -Eugene Kamenka (introduction, xliv-xlv)]

**they happen to also be teachers. anyone got a problem with that? if so, why?

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Paper money is a representation of gold (or possibly other assets?) It's a "note" and not real trade exchange. What makes the government money real, and not paper someone else printed - is that they hold the assets, or at least they owe for them.

That's why you can trade the notes for goods. It's the barter system represented by notes that say "this represents gold, and it's yours." A facsimile of a note is not a note, because it does not represent assets. Easy enough.

As for lesbian teachers, maybe it's because I'm Canadian that I don't even understand this? I'm a bisexual programmer. My partner is a straight house painter. Is there some link to sexual orientation and career choices that I'm missing? People sleep with who they sleep with and do what they do... I just don't see the connection.

As for whether someone would come to help out a gay couple in the same situation - entirely depends on who happens to be walking by at the time. I would say the chances would increase or decrease based on where you are geographically too. As I've never been to NYC, I can't comment, but I can give similar examples based on my own familiar geography. The chance in downtown Toronto would be greater than in downtown Barrie (pop. 125K with rural surroundings) because the city core is by nature more tolerant of diversity (because they are immersed in it) than the mostly-white middle class community that I live in. If I saw it in downtown Barrie I would do something, so would my partner. (Actually, he said he would be more inclined to defend a lesbian couple than a het couple) But seeing as the local gay bar had their windows smashed regularly, I think we'd be more the minority here than in the big city. This is with one other disclaimer - I find people in big cities much more likely to ignore anything going on than they do in smaller cities, which might even it up more. Weird shit happens in big cities with more frequency, which desensitizes people.

Anyhow, it really all depends on just who is walking by at the time. You were lucky that someone who had a big enough intimidation factor did - as many other people simply wouldn't want to risk their own physical safety. That's a factor too. Too many variables.

It's not that the government holds the assets, its that they are acknowledged in being the last word in what's legal and not. A lot of assets, probably most, are NOT held by the government.

Citation?

i dunno, I think you need more backing for a claim that would seem to suggest that the United States is a command-market economy where the government controls the means of production.

I am not generally inclined to believe a person or group of people on the Internet or take their word as gospel, especially when it directly contravenes the things I learned in school.

I am also not suggesting anything about the "United States" and wonder why Americans are so bloody ethnocentric. I am not one by the way, and I do exist. Neato.

"The United States" is not an ethnic group.

Feel free to look up the definition of "ethnocentric" which includes "culture" as well as "ethnicity."

"The United States" is not a culture, either.

Go back and read a little bit will you? In your attempts to make me look stupid, you're making yourself look like an idiot.

(no subject)

pastorlenny.livejournal.com - 2010-04-17 19:47 (UTC) - Expand

What assets are you talking about?

Predominantly gold and silver. It's obviously more complex than that, but in a nutshell money is a representation of gold and silver.

U.S. currency is backed by no such thing.

Citation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock

http://money.howstuffworks.com/currency7.htm

http://www.kwaves.com/fiat.htm

Lol. The US went off the gold standard ages and ages ago, and went off the silver standard pretty soon after.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_dollar#Fiat_standard

When you think about it, it's a good sign that our country has grown strong enough as an institution that the population trusts it enough to hold the abstract value of 'value'. That's all gold was anyways, we just got rid of the middle man now that we are confident our country will be around long enough we don't have to base value on an item that really only retained its value through scarcity. Its a much better system because it was very easy for other countries to game that 'scarcity' system by flooding markets, drying markets, etc. And what if we found that there was a 500 mile wide gold deposit below Iran?

(no subject)

geezer-also.livejournal.com - 2010-04-17 22:15 (UTC) - Expand

Hey, welcome back! Where have you been?

It looks like he was abducted by the enterprise (D).

But then he used that gadget from Lost and he moved the whole island back in time.

You watched too much James Bond. Was that Goldfinger where they threatening to nuke Fort Knox and thus devaluing the currency?

Anyway, at one time cash was indeed backed by gold/silver held by the government in vaults (like Fort Knox) and in debt to other governments around the world in the forms of bonds (I.O.U.'s)

Fun to test my memory so without looking this up I believe American F.I.A.T currency passed into law on Christmas Eve of 1931. And the rest of the world soon there after (within 10years) moved to the American currency as the base standard for international trade. Which is why USD was freely accepted as valid money in USSR as it is in Cuba today, where a Lira or Franc is not accepted.

Besides all the bullshit reasons for invading Iraq (WMD's, oil) an under reported but very true reason for invading Iraq is that Saddam Hussein was threatening to trade his oil with a Euro's rather then USD. Many OPEC nations were extremely interested and considered following Iraq's example.

You have to understand that majority of USA's GDP is in bullshit of very creative finances. Resources are gone and manufacturing has been shipped overseas. When Chavez sells oil to China in USD, the American economy gains simply by virtue of being the currency that is being traded. It's a little beyond my understanding but it's truth.

Nah, by the time Goldfinger came out the US already went off the gold-standard (iirc)

But, the theory in goldfinger is:
Get some rich people to buy all the gold they possibly can.
Then nuke fort knox--which decreases the amount of gold in the world, thus increasing the value of anyone who still has gold. (this is all iirc, it has been years since I've seen it)

James Bond is fiction, based on some truths, (William Stephenson, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stephenson) Fort Knox, Gold Standard) but not in truthful fashion, timeline, etc.

well yeah--but even so, I think it wasn't so much about devaluaing currency, as buying up a good and then making that good very scarce so as to make those who own the remaining good very rich

also: Fort Knox is not the largest reserve of gold in the US--that'd be in NYC--manhattan to be precise

Ever see the third Die Hard movie? Yeah, the place they rob in NYC actually does exist and has way more gold than Knox

That was moved to Warren Buffet's rather unassuming basement years ago.

Besides we have no idea of the riches in Ethiopia's King Solomon's mine.

Nor the riches in the bowels of the Vatican.

So much money, so little time.

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