So if this month's subject is political populism...

[johnny9fingers]

We have this frankly bizarre piece of news:

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/02/britons-more-sold-on-immigration-benefits-than-other-europeans

Wherein we find that:

"The YouGov–Cambridge Globalism survey found that 28% of Britons believed the benefits of immigration outweighed the costs, compared with 24% in Germany, 21% in France and 19% in Denmark. A further 20% of British people believed the costs and benefits were about equal, while 16% were not sure."

and

"In all, only 37% of Britons feel the costs of immigration outweigh the benefits – lower than in any other big European country apart from Poland. By comparison, 50% of Italians believe the net impact of immigration is negative, as well as 49% of Swedes and 42% of French and 40% of Germans.

The findings come weeks before the European parliament elections, where populist, anti-immigrant forces are projected to perform well across Europe."

So if we in the UK are that divided, what is happening elsewhere? Is it actually worse? I mean, we are, by my own admission, the nation half of which is comprised of Brexiteers. Can this poll actually be representative of opinion in Europe, and not merely a delusional bandage to wrap around our own self-inflicted wounds? What is it like where you are?

I'm both sceptical and confused. How about you?

Comments

[abomvubuso]

It's because Britons are open and welcoming people... oh wait.

[johnny9fingers]

You can see why I'm both sceptical and confused then.

[oportet]

I think the type of people conducting polls don't want to seek out those "against' immigration, or the people "against" immigration aren't in a hurry to participate in polls - or both.

[johnny9fingers]

I'd tend to agree with you; but further, though nuanced, corroboration comes in this survey:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2019/may/02/leavers-v-remainers-how-britains-tribes-compare

Questions 9 and 10 being the surprising sides of the coin. Something else is going on here. But what I'm not sure about. Guilt? Contrition?

[tcpip]

I want to see the results from a country like Luxembourg, where the majority of people are immigrants.

Overall it is a topic where empirical research needs to be asserted more strongly.

e.g.,
"Migrants and refugees are good for economies"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05507-0

[oportet]

At first glance it seems the purpose of 10 is to make you feel guilty - but on second thought, maybe there isn't a better way to word it.

[johnny9fingers]

I'm pretty sure you know my opinion about refugees. I had the parable about the Good Samaritan bashed into me at too early an age I guess. I tend to think of assisting refugees as a necessary duty, even though I no longer identify as any sort of Christian. But I also think this is a matter of free will, too.

We do appear to be a bipolar polity at present here in the UK. There are externalities that have contributed to this, but the structural underpinnings that promoted a divided nation were put in place by Margaret Thatcher's administration and re-enforced by Tony Blair's.

We reverted to a nation of accountants book-keepers, forever trying to game the rules for our personal advantage; and thereby becoming rule-obsessed and always searching for profitable anomalies. And in doing so we are in danger of forgetting what we have been trying to become properly for centuries; a place of law, justice, sanctuary and tradition, with a heavy emphasis on fairness and decency, and a tolerance of (or even indulgence in) individual eccentricity. Now, to me, that should be at the core of every nation's "mission statement" or whatever the current jargon terms it.

As for me, if our immigrants and refugees embrace that part of British culture, they are a good thing. If they want us to open our doors to them and aid them, we'd be happier if they didn't mess with the furniture. But they have to try to fit in. That's all we ask. Fit in. Find a space and fit in.

[johnny9fingers]

Overall it is a topic where empirical research needs to be asserted more strongly.

There are quite a few of those. But people will believe what they want to rather than that which is true (for a given value of truth, that is).