Hating on the Poor

[paft.livejournal.com]

The author responds to a comment on her blogpost Why I Make Terrible Decisions:

I would like to understand what you are really angry about. Is it that I am poor and insufficiently servile about it? Is it that you legitimately think that you are somehow morally superior? Is it that I dared to write my thoughts down and someone forced you to read them? Is it that you never spend fifty dollars a month on something that could be used elsewhere, and you are extra judgey about it because it is the thing you have to be judgey about? Is it that you are an antismoking warrior and doing the world A Service by wishing ill on random Internet bloggers? Is it that you are uncomfortable with the idea that even if I have no money I am allowed to sometimes complain about life? How rich do I have to be before I am allowed to have objections to the current class system? What amount of money do you think gives me the right to be human?

More and more, offline and on, I’ve been seeing the “a feature, not a bug” argument about the increasing income disparity between the very rich and the rest of us. It’s an argument best summarized as, “Forget the poor. They’re losers.” Salon has an acid piece up about Tyler Cowen and the upcoming “hyper-meritocracy,” which includes some of the euphemisms people like Cowen love to use about the fate of the non-wealthy in the brave new world he’s so excited about. “Tough trade-offs,” and “common sense” for the rationale (which I’ve encountered here) that since we can’t help every single poor person, we shouldn’t help any of them.

Along with this blithe rejection of an increasingly large portion of the human race is a tendency to vilify the poor. After all, if one is going to relegate all these people to a life of hunger, illness, and exhaustion, it’s important to convince oneself that they deserve it.



A piece by a blogger called killermartinis is a welcome antidote to the Friedmans and the Cowens of this world. Yes, the author says, poor people often make bad decisions. Here’s why. Here’s what it’s like to be poor.

I know how to cook. I had to take Home Ec to graduate high school. Most people on my level didn't. Broccoli is intimidating. You have to have a working stove, and pots, and spices, and you'll have to do the dishes no matter how tired you are or they'll attract bugs. It is a huge new skill for a lot of people. That's not great, but it's true. And if you fuck it up, you could make your family sick. We have learned not to try too hard to be middle-class. It never works out well and always makes you feel worse for having tried and failed yet again. Better not to try. It makes more sense to get food that you know will be palatable and cheap and that keeps well. Junk food is a pleasure that we are allowed to have; why would we give that up? We have very few of them.


And her reaction, posted at the beginning of this OP, to the inevitable hostile commenter reacting to the fact that she (horrors!) smokes cigarettes, is as worthwhile a read as the article.

What she (and, inadvertently, the commenter) highlights is the assumption that a poor person who complains about being poor is speaking out of turn. A poor person should be ashamed of being poor, to the point of giving up even those small pleasures they can afford, and should not talk back to his or her literal wealthy “superiors” – who, if the poor person is really, really good, might toss a few nice leftovers into a donation box. The word “uppity” is rarely used, but it’s pretty similar to the affluent white attitude towards blacks that I remember from the American south of my childhood, which often involved a definition of “good” that required a staggering level of self-abnegation. A passage from Sinclair Lewis’ satiric novel about a fascist takeover in the US, It Can’t Happen Here, sums it up:

“In order…to give the most sympathetic aid possible to all Negroes who comprehend their proper and valuable place in society, all such colored persons, male or female, as can prove that they have devoted not less than forty-five years to such suitable tasks as domestic service, agricultural labor, and common labor in industries, shall at the age of sixty-five be permitted to appear before a special Board, composed entirely of white persons, and upon proof that while employed they have never been idle except through sickness, they shall be recommended for pensions…”

The awful part is that this seems generous compared to the current right wing libertarian attitude towards the poor.

*

Comments

[paft.livejournal.com]

If you didn't bother to read the whole piece, why do you bother commenting?

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Didn't say I stopped reading.

[paft.livejournal.com]

And yet you somehow missed the part about "You have to have a working stove, and pots, and spices, and you'll have to do the dishes no matter how tired you are or they'll attract bugs. It is a huge new skill for a lot of people. That's not great, but it's true. And if you fuck it up, you could make your family sick." Much of what she talks about here is the fact that poor people often have very, very little time. You can't bet on having a working stove, either.

But, of course, you decide to pretend it's all about broccoli.

p: What did poor people eat before the advent of fast food?

Fast food. Poor people, particularly in cities, often did not have working stoves or the means to store food without attracting insects, so they frequently relied on street or over-the-counter food.

p: Surely there were few people poorer than my father's family during the Depression and yet my grandparents were not only able to cook broccoli they were able to grow it.

If your grandparents had a plot of land to grow broccoli and were lucky enough not to be affected by the dust bowl, then I assure you, there were many MANY people poorer than they were.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

How does one prepare broccoli wrong in such a way that people get sick? And has this person never been to a grocery store? You can buy frozen broccoli with cheese sauce or butter, you just heat it in the microwave.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

How does one prepare broccoli wrong in such a way that people get sick?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escherichia_coli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escherichia_coli)
And has this person never been to a grocery store? You can buy frozen broccoli with cheese sauce or butter, you just heat it in the microwave.
I would imagine microwaves are few and far between in the types of motels that low income people live in. At least I've never really seen one in the seedy spots I've ventured to. Most people brought hot plates with em.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

1) People eat raw broccoli, you're perhaps thinking of raw meat?

2) Low income people live in motels? I'd love to hear what percentage you think do that.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

1) People eat raw broccoli, you're perhaps thinking of raw meat?

Lots of vegetables come in contact with animal shit.

2) Low income people live in motels? I'd love to hear what percentage you think do that.

I dunno if such a percentage exists. It's not unheard of...
In college, I would deliver food to dozens of different families in long term hotels weekly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/us/11motel.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/11/14/thousands-homeless-families-still-take-shelter-hotels-and-motels/otYrDe98YlPfMCgEwiNlML/story.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2033698/The-millions-Americans-living-long-stay-motels.html
http://www.anaheim.net/comm_svc/pdf/faq3.pdf
ETA: In case you're wondering why a person might choose to live in an expensive motel over renting a home, try doing that with poor credit and no one to two month security deposit on hand.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

2) Low income people live in motels? I'd love to hear what percentage you think do that.


I don't know if you ever heard of that Alaska Gold show on Discovery Channel or even watch it, but that father and son team, (Jack and Todd Hoffman) are sort of notorious for operating such a place in Portland, Oregon, and being slum lords. They use a loop hole by kicking out their low-income tenants once a month, to circumvent Oregon’s landlord-tenant act, which requires a tenant rent for more than 30 days consecutively. The place was/is a dump, cited for all sorts of serious issues. The Hoffmans are extremely religious, I think they're deacons in a local church, and the program will have clips of them often praying that God will lead them to all the gold they can find, despite the fact as miners, they're pretty much like the Keystone Cops.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

And so the percentage is greater than zero.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Seems to be.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

Looks like at least some percentage of 58% of the total homeless population. The homeless living in motels are grouped in with those living in other types of non-permanent shelter. I can't find a decent breakdown but one number I saw put it at 14% of the total homeless population. Not trivial to be sure.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

There's a spot right by my ex-girlfriend's that is like that. There were 3 of em right next to each other. One was even just a cluster of shitty houses. Every once in a while one would get shut down for illicit drug sales, and 6 to 8 weeks later it would reopen with a slightly different name. Finally the city condemned the whole strip, but I think squatters just took over. I doubt there is much discernable difference in conditions during the day.

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

no one to two month security deposit on hand.

I was just thinking that - - and, and . . . in the cities/towns where the wait-list for low-income housing is a very lengthy wait-list, then yeah the social-worker can issue a motel voucher good for a certain period of time :( sad but true.

Me and a gal from work have helped out a lady and her daughter who were living out of a motel. That lady's hold-up was exactly as you stated - THE DEPOSIT. I know of a few church-going folk that have also helped out families in that same scenario . . . so yeah, you're right, it really isn't that uncommon!

[paft.livejournal.com]

Hard as it may be for you to believe, many, many people do not have microwaves.

Aside from the contamination hazard someone has alread pointed out with raw veggies like broccoli, uncooked cruciferous vegetables (like broccoli) can lead to thyroid problems. And the level of fiber can cause bloating, stomach distress, and intestinal problems.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

Also, many many people do not have easy access to supermarkets or refrigerators from which to buy/store those frozen vegetables.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Indeed.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

Are we talking about refugees in Sudan or poor people in the US? Just a few posts ago you were claiming a former college professor with a house qualified as poor. Now apparently the typical poor person doesn't have a microwave or a refrigerator/freezer in their apartment. I'm sure most homeless people don't, but they are not typical. Nor is contracting e-coli from eating raw broccoli.

[paft.livejournal.com]

nmg: Are we talking about refugees in Sudan or poor people in the US?

Nope. I'm talking about poor people in the US. Quite frequently they live in areas that don't have easy access to supermarkets. They end up relying either on fast food, or markets that don't carry healthy foods at affordable prices.

nmg: Just a few posts ago you were claiming a former college professor with a house qualified as poor. Now apparently the typical poor person doesn't have a microwave or a refrigerator/freezer in their apartment.

No, I did not say "the typical poor person doesn't have a microwave or refrigerator/freezer in their apartment." I said many of them don't have these things.

Do you understand the difference?

nmg: Nor is contracting e-coli from eating raw broccoli.

If you rely heavily on raw foods, your chances of contracting e-coli definitely goes up. It's something that should be an especially strong concern for a parent trying to feed young children, or the elderly. And as I pointed out, e-coli contamination is not the only hazard associated with eating foods like raw broccoli.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

Do you understand the difference?

Yes. I also know how to get you to come out and state that your examples don't correspond to typical poor people.


If you rely heavily on raw foods, your chances of contracting e-coli definitely goes up.

Sure. And if you rely heavily on driving to get to work your chance of dying in an auto accident definitely go up. If you walk regularly your chances of being mugged definitely go up. If you regularly import moles into your backyard your chances of seeing a molehill definitely go up.

But then again, if every time you're eating raw vegetables it's in place of eating fast food, I'd say your chances are going down.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

I keep hearing that people don't have refrigerators or stoves but have never seen anything to back this up. Certainly the homeless don't, if this is what you're talking about, no argument. For those with homes, the numbers may be large, in the tens of thousands, but it seems that as a percent, it's pretty small:

Source (http://www.eia.gov/emeu/recs/appliances/appliances.html)
There are some appliances that are commonplace in the home regardless of income level. These appliances are refrigerators, cooking appliances (which includes the standard oven with stove-top burners, separate stove and ovens, and toaster ovens), and color televisions. The percent of households that have them are as follows:

Refrigerator 99.9%
Cooking appliance 99.7%
Color television 98.9%

Is this really what you mean when you talk about people without access, the 0.1% of households without refrigerators? If so, I'm not convinced this really tells us much about the poor as a whole.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

That EIA study was developed for the determination of energy consumption in homes, it wasn't geared towards addressing poverty in any meaningful sense. And even by their metrics

25% of the poor don't own microwaves or have access to them. So what are you going on about?

The Colbert Report
Get More: Colbert Report Full Episodes (http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/),Video Archive (http://www.colbertnation.com/video)

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/393168/july-26-2011/-poor--in-america (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/393168/july-26-2011/-poor--in-america)

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

I was asking about stoves and refrigerators, not microwaves. If 25% of poor households didn't have a refrigerator, this would make sense. You said "many many people do not have easy access to supermarkets or refrigerators from which to buy/store those frozen vegetables." Are you saying the 0.1% of households are "many many"?

I'm also not using the heritage foundation's study, it's not honest as far as I'm concerned.

[brother-dour.livejournal.com]

Is it that you never cook broccoli incorrectly, and you are extra judgey about it because it is the thing you have to be judgey about?

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

It is, as I said in the comment that you're replying to, that I don't see how you go about preparing it incorrectly in such a way that people get sick.

[brother-dour.livejournal.com]

It is possible- it is possible with just about any food item.

But I forgot where I was going with that comment. It's been a long, tiring, disappointing week for me...