ext_370466 ([identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] talkpolitics2013-09-07 06:55 pm
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An open letter from a dinosaur

Dear Progressives,

Turn-about being fair play, I figured that I'd write a mirrior of Bean's post But where to start?


A couple months back Johnathan Korman wrote an excellent post on the poles of american politics. In it was the following line ...the correct social order is natural but not effortless — without devotion to the correct social order, conservatives believe we devolve into barbarism.

Do you genuinely believe that if you'd been transported back to fifteenth-century London as a baby, you'd realize all on your own that witch-burning was wrong, slavery was wrong, that every sentient being ought to be in your circle of concern? If so I'd like to know why,because as far as I can tell Homo Sapiens today are no more mentally capable than the Homo Sapiens of 500 years ago. I assert that our current high quality of life has more to do with culture and technology than it does with any inherent superiority to those who came before us. The fact of the matter is that we live in a civil society where, for the most part, people raise their kids to obey the law, pay their taxes, and generally not kill each-other without a damn good reason. It is this state of civility that conservatives seek to conserve.

The majority of these conservation efforts focus on individual and family responsibilities/virtue. They operate on the theory that if you want innovation you need to reward innovation. If you want virtue reward virtue. If you want stable kids reward stable families, because barbarity is never more than a generation or two away. If you want good social order we must reward virtue and punish vice.

It is in this space that intent runs head-long into perceived intent, and I start to turn into my grandad...

Using anfalicious' recent example, I am simply flabbergasted that a "post-gendered society" is even a topic of discussion outside of science fiction. Feminism has moved from arguing that women should be treated equal and have the same rights as men, etc... To that that men and women should be interchangeable. I am expected ignore the fact that the burden of reproduction is carried disproportionately by the female of the species. I am expected to ignore the differences in biology. To ignore the different strengths and weaknesses of both and how they compliment each other. I am expected to be genderless. I am not therefore I am a misogynist.

Global warming is based on computer models that keep failing. Catastrophic predictions are constantly proven wrong and (surprise, surprise) the only solution ever proposed is higher taxes and greater regulatory powers. I suspect that a dog is being wagged therefore I am a "denier".

I don't want to live in a world of "Honor Killings" and medieval torture and I refuse to coddle or kow-tow to those that do therefore I am a Islamiphobe.

I oppose gun control therefore I want children to die.

I support voter ID laws therefore I am a Racist.

Fascist.

Terrorist.

Killer.

I could go on...

These are labels that have been applied to me by my so-called intellectual and moral "betters" in an effort to shut me up.

I am a dinosaur. Hear me roar.

[identity profile] rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Apparently sandwichwarrior's dinosaur roar sounds an awful lot like crickets.

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:26 pm (UTC)(link)
You assume they tolerate it, tell me, are you able to control the more racist, white supremacist fringe of American conservatives? Why aren't you doing anything to stop it? Not all conservatives are racist, but you have to admit that some out there are pretty damn, openly racist. And no I'm not talking about being misunderstood as racist, I'm talking about openly wearing swastikas and KKK hoods and outright telling the black population to go back to Africa.
Edited 2013-09-10 19:28 (UTC)

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:30 pm (UTC)(link)
But you decline to label all Muslims as rabid animals, and seem to imply that they do experience suffering and thus are able to experience human emotions.

Thus, small victories.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Last time I checked death camps are a Christian invention, and what's more those 'civilized' Christians are the ones paying black people to do in their countries what they're too cowardly to propose doing here.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:31 pm (UTC)(link)
When conservative Christians here unambiguously denounce Vladimir Putin's homophobia and conservative American Christians paying Ugandans to run death camps, then they can criticize the log in their neighbors' eyes.

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:40 pm (UTC)(link)
And it's not like there isn't a potential for it today. Every time I see someone burn the Koran or protest that people are "fag enablers" because they don't inflict violence against homosexuals...

... I am thankful that the United States does not have a state religion and the concept of preventing cruel and unusual punishment is at least openly discussed here.

And yet I do recall cases of child and spousal abuse that are committed by people that are supposedly religious. And hey, we do tend to bomb abortion clinics sometimes.

Oh yes! And also there's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs
Edited 2013-09-10 19:41 (UTC)

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Except that ancient philosophers didn't think empiricism was a valid method in the first place. They were prime speculators, not people interested in actual, tangible evidence.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, this again? You don't know what the Left even is and wouldn't know it until well after it proceeded to shoot people for the glorious revolution of the proletariat.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:47 pm (UTC)(link)
And of course we have people who object to 'fag enablers' here and pay for death camps in other countries, indicating what they'd do here if people would let them.

And all this obscures that 500 years ago, conservatism would take [livejournal.com profile] sandwichwarrior's views as the lies of the Devil and hang, draw, and quarter him for treason. Conservatism never accepts freedom in any serious sense until long after the rest of society does, and even then conservative ideals of freedom always have that "For me but not for thee" element. Conservatives 500 years ago advocated the power of the King, the Lord's annointed. Conservatism 1,000 years ago advocated the rights of the nobility against peasant and king. Conservatives 1,500 years ago advocated worshiping Zeus and Odin.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Except that you appealed to people who fundamentally rejected the idea of experimentation in the first place. Which is precisely what differentiated Bacon from Eratosthenes. If you appeal to a watermelon but say you're talking about grapes, all the pleading in the world that you're really talking about grapes won't turn a watermelon into a grape.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Which is why I'm sure you oppose outlawing abortion and mandating Christian values, right? I mean if that's not politicians forcing everyone to accept their hypocrisy....

[identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Watch out, yo! Amish in da hood!

Image

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:50 pm (UTC)(link)
The world of the 1880s-1960s when colonialism mandated that a huge portion of the world population do precisely this. Of course when white people invade, rape, and pillage to their heart's content, they get moral absolution from the cowardly pseudo-absolute moralists who become relativists whenever their ideas would actually cost them.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:51 pm (UTC)(link)
You don't even know what Leftists are, so how can you say what they would or would not do?

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Citing a satire written by a socialist to argue in favor of capitalism is the leading cause of divinely-mandated Kitten Massacres.

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:52 pm (UTC)(link)
I think you may be referring to over population, which is being willfully curbed by people today - middle to high income people even - choosing not to have children and the provision of contraception to people that cannot afford it - which by the way is being fought against by the very same people that deny global warming. We are not telling people they cannot have sex, we are providing ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease. And we are not telling the poor to remain poor we are telling the rich to be more responsible in their carbon output. If you own an industry you can afford to make sure it pollutes less, and you can fork over a little bit of tax money for things like mass transit.

You are making a little sacrifice sound like a grand conspiracy of oppression for the sake of oppression.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Progressive and Left, like Liberal and Left, are not the same thing. You should look up what words mean before you write them. Progressives and Liberals *are* closely intertwined because they accept capitalism and private property. Leftists see both as a moral abomination and welcome fire, sword, and guillotine as cures for them.

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:55 pm (UTC)(link)
They are trying soooooooooo hard to look gangster

Are they off to steal some horses? Hey, where's Billy the Kid at? LOL

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:56 pm (UTC)(link)
When I see Democrats advocating a system of state planning, the wholesale confiscation of private property, and the control of the means of production by the working classes, then I will believe they are Leftists. Until I see this, I will privately be laughing my ass off at conservatives using words they don't understand, and at progressives who think that appealing to the ideology of Palmerston and Gladstone as their current buzzword means that they're really appealing to something with an actually positive basis for human affairs.

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Also I'm willing to bet that no true dinosaur was conservative

I'm willing to bet that they didn't have jobs

They just, sort of lived off the land expecting it to just provide for them, a bunch of giant welfare queens if you as me.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 08:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Define "true dinosaur." Because I guarantee you conservatives won't accept birds as dinosaurs. ;)

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