talkpolitics | (no subject)

http://reason.com/archives/2013/06/12/three-reasons-the-nothing-to-hide-crowd
http://www.cato.org/blog/why-nsa-collecting-phone-records-problem
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110524/00084614407/privacy-is-not-secrecy-debunking-if-youve-got-nothing-to-hide-argument.shtml
http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the-data-trust-blog/2009/02/debunking-a-myth-if-you-have-n.html

There are a significant number of people who respond to any revelation that government is violating the law (yes, the Constitution is part of the law) with a shrug and "I've got nothing to hide". These people are selfish fools at best. They are not looking at the bigger picture and/or aren't considering other people. Plus, they probably aren't paying attention to the fact that everyone in America is currently a criminal, that everyone violates a law with serious penalties at some point, whether you know it or not. (And the fact that that is the case is another problem, but that's outside the scope of my point here.)

Even Biden and Obama railed against what they are themselves supporting now, before they were in power. That alone should be enough to make you stop and think about what having that kind of power available can do to people.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

+1 more. We've got an increasing population of folks in prison, more felonies that can be committed by accident, and ubiquitous surveillance. The legal system has moved from trying to convict the guilty to intimidate the suspected into taking a plea bargain. What about this doesn’t sound like we’re moving towards a police state?

In privately run, for-profit prisons. Sounds like a good business to get into, doesn't it?

The legal system has moved from trying to convict the guilty to intimidate the suspected into taking a plea bargain.

I've always wondered why this wasn't a big issue among liberal circles. This effects the poor (and minorities) more than anyone else, as they can't afford to pay for good lawyers. Its pretty much standard: lets just charge them with a outrageous crime that we probably couldn't convict on, but it will scare them into taking a plea to a lesser charge, the charge we should be charging them with anyways.

I can't see it as anything but a miscarriage of justice.

Well, the trial lawyers are big supporters of the left. I'd expect that the Democrats are about as likely to turn on them as the Republicans would be to go after big oil.

It depends on which "liberal circles" you're talking about. There are tons of groups/people on the left outraged by what they call the school->prison pipeline.

Pink Brigade types of libbies! :P

Ya, that's my point. In those types of discussion, I rarely hear about overcharging for plea bargains. I'm sure somebody talks about it in that context, I just can't ever remember seeing anyone do it.

Democratic governors, mayors, state congressfolks, and county councilfolks would be the important ones. Everyone else can be concerned and outraged, but it won't do any good.

Thing is, the way things are makes it easier on cops and prosecutors and cheaper overall. These concerns seem to outweigh the outrage and concern of those who haven't been arrested, and nobody cares what the criminals, er, accused say. It's not like we're going to run out of black and/or poor people to jail any time soon, so for most people, it's not a big issue.

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That's probably because we're running low on money. All politicians like to look tough on crime, but they have to keep schools open. When the economy improves, this will likely change.