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constitution,
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http://reason.com/archives/2013/06/12/three-reasons-the-nothing-to-hide-crowd
http://www.cato.org/blog/why-nsa-collecting-phone-records-problem
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110524/00084614407/privacy-is-not-secrecy-debunking-if-youve-got-nothing-to-hide-argument.shtml
http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the-data-trust-blog/2009/02/debunking-a-myth-if-you-have-n.html

There are a significant number of people who respond to any revelation that government is violating the law (yes, the Constitution is part of the law) with a shrug and "I've got nothing to hide". These people are selfish fools at best. They are not looking at the bigger picture and/or aren't considering other people. Plus, they probably aren't paying attention to the fact that everyone in America is currently a criminal, that everyone violates a law with serious penalties at some point, whether you know it or not. (And the fact that that is the case is another problem, but that's outside the scope of my point here.)

Even Biden and Obama railed against what they are themselves supporting now, before they were in power. That alone should be enough to make you stop and think about what having that kind of power available can do to people.

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You know you just turned this into another gun debate. Ohhhhh, Noooooooos.

Well, anyone with half a brain would see that the joke has nothing to do with gun control, it's just about calling out Lindsey Graham's hypocrisy.

Well, anyone with half a brain

You overestimated our brain power.

"Well, anyone with half a brain"

Well there's your problem right there

I've been worried about this sort of thing since the Bush years, and if it happened during the Clinton ones I was too young to take it in. But, you know, everyone knows this all about party lines.

Edited 2013-06-13 03:39 (UTC)

I see it more along the lines of we should all be concerned anytime the government infringes on our Constitutional rights (in this case, the Fourth and due process clause of the Fourteenth)

There are those of us who understood the potential of such activity, only to be dismissed as conspiracy nuts.

The masses will not grasp the gravity of the situation. They have been trained to ignore such disturbances of their reality.

Anyone in the camp of 'I have nothing to hide' gets this question: then why do you still use passwords and online aliases ? I mean, come on, what is the difference between some bozo at Booz Allen and the rest of us knowing just what kind of porn you favor, and how long it runs before you are, um, finished?

What do you have to hide? And what do you do when your side or our country is no longer in control of the data?

Slinger's right, you government trusting types better think long and hard about this one.

Yep.

One of these things is not like the others.

Not a big deal, not a big deal, not a big deal, END OF THE FUCKING WORLD

Edited 2013-06-13 05:14 (UTC)

(And the fact that that is the case is another problem, but that's outside the scope of my point here.)

It should be a Monthy Topic, IMO.

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

That's nice, but I can't tell whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with Mr. Graham.

It is analogous. And that makes the answer for the gun debate the same as for this one. Constitution says the government can't take our guns and the Constitution says the government can't search us without a warrant. There is no exception for the "effectiveness of the outcome" of the unconstitutional laws and policies.

But, you know, everyone knows this all about party lines.

That's just stupid.

you government trusting types better think long and hard about this one.

I'm not holding my breath.

That's probably true.

+1 more. We've got an increasing population of folks in prison, more felonies that can be committed by accident, and ubiquitous surveillance. The legal system has moved from trying to convict the guilty to intimidate the suspected into taking a plea bargain. What about this doesn’t sound like we’re moving towards a police state?

The Obama administration has overseen a sharp increase in the number of people subjected to warrantless electronic surveillance of their telephone, email and Facebook accounts by federal law enforcement agencies, new documents released by the American Civil Liberties Union on Friday revealed. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/28/warrantless-electronic-surveillance-obama_n_1924508.html)

Back then, "pen registers," which collect outgoing data like phone numbers, or "trap and trace" devices that collect incoming data, were physical devices that had to be attached to phone lines. It was an arduous process that limited widespread use.

Not so today. From the feds to local Mayberry cops, all that law enforcers need in order to obtain an order allowing surveillance is to file a procedural request with a judge certifying that the information will be used in conjunction with a criminal investigation. With contemporary technology, telecommunications providers can comply with those orders at the push of a button.

The Washington Post said the surveillance program involving internet firms, code-named PRISM and established under Republican President George W. Bush in 2007, had seen "exponential growth" under Obama, a Democrat. It said the NSA increasingly relied on PRISM as a source of raw material for daily intelligence reports to the president. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/08/us-usa-security-records-idUSBRE9560VA20130608)

Erwin Chemerinsky, a law professor at the University of California, Irvine, called the program "deeply disturbing" and beyond what should be constitutionally acceptable.

"It is a huge gathering of information by the federal government. The argument that it protects national security is unpersuasive," he said.

meanwhile...

The NSA is currently finishing construction on its Utah Data Center, a new $1.2 billion storage facility near Salt Lake City. When it's finished, the data center will be able to hold and process five zettabytes of data, according to NPR. (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/06/130612-nsa-utah-data-center-storage-zettabyte-snowden/)

so yeah, you can try to derail the discussion by playing the race card, or you can acknowledge that advances in technology, and ever expanding domestic surveillance by the government have made this a more important issue.

For the record, starting a statement by lumping a whole group of people into the nicey-nicey qualification of "they are all selfish fools" does not serve well to foster a constructive debate, which I presume is what you must have intended when writing this post (the alternative being to just rile up a bunch of people for the sake of lullzy flame-war, for which there's a term that I'm sure you're very familiar with).

That said, I've generally been around the places you frequent for quite a while, and I don't seem to recall you having held Bush & Cheney's feet to the fire on the very same issue, the way you're apparently so eager to hold Biden & Obama now. Care to explain that discrepancy? Was it because you suddenly woke up to the realization that governments have been treading along the brink of the basic law of the land for ages, or does it, by chance, have something to do with your ideological affiliations?

You might not answer the latter question if you feel that you don't have the time to deign an elaboration for the selfish fools you've so kindly addressed.

Of course Graham's hypocritical complaint could be expanded to include any other parts of the Constitution - which is the more general point being made here, the way I'm reading this.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".

<-- That's the exact text of the 2nd Amendment. Please elaborate exactly how it translates INTO "the government can't take our guns".

True: I'm not seeing a blue tie on GHWB.

BLUE TIE ARMAGEDDON!

OK, what follows after the thinking is done? WE WANT ACTION! Get your guns from the closet and set things right, yo! There's nothing to worry about if God's on your side!

Wait, where are you going?.....

Ah, just to fetch some popcorn. Fair enough then.

I'll take term limits first and save the blazing saddles for last. Elimination through the voting box of all incumbents. Start fresh and elect leaders who will dismantle this apparatus.

Weeds pull themselves.

The part after the comma.

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