ext_6933 ([identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] talkpolitics2012-04-10 07:36 am
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Civilization without Civility: Why Fear Homosexuality?‏

Until quite recently, the word "homophobia" seemed like an oxymoron to me. I had no sense of how deep the fear actually runs. In fact, I considered it to be a self-referential fear such as the fear of being discovered. People who attack homosexuals are themselves latent homosexuals who fear that others will find them out. Although there may be some truth in this interpretation of the term, it misses a whole body of fear that I knew nothing about until recently.

The Icarus phenomenon of Jason Russell's meltdown prompted me to look more deeply into the involvement of Christian bigots in Uganda. The campaign of Invisible Children to pressure the Obama administration into retaining military advisers in that country reminded me of recent news of American fundamentalist ties to attempts to legitimatize de facto violence against homosexuals in that beleaguered land. I was reminded of how homosexuals in Africa fear being subjected to the vicious treatment of "necklacing" with a burning tire.

My quest for information took me to the work of Jeff Sharlet who became famous for his work exposing the fundamentalist mafia in Washington. Sharlet interviewed Ugandan homophobes to determine the depth of their ties to the Washington mob and to get a handle on the nature of their bigotry. What he found in the former case is that the Washington group has very strong ties to Ugandan homophobes. In the latter case, he found an intellectual basis for bigotry in a thin tome entitled The Pink Swastika by Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams. It is an eye-opening view into the minds of people who fear homosexuality more than homosexuals fear fundamentalism. Until I read the book, I did not think that was possible.

The authors use evidence of sadistic homosexuals at the highest levels of the German national socialist movement to imply that national socialism is a product of homosexuality. They go so far as to imply that the liberal attitude toward homosexuality within the Weimar Republic gave rise to national socialism. They add two and two together to come up with the number three: freedom for homosexuals leads to death camps for Jews.

The most remarkable aspect of their work is that they provide sufficient evidence for a counter argument, but fail to pay any attention to that evidence. They show that the sadists who perpetrated atrocities were merely a fraction of the homosexual population and what these sadists shared with the authors: a contempt for other homosexuals. They also showed that some homosexuals react violently when they are abused, yet they would have their audience abuse homosexuals. Lively and Abrams make Jonah Goldberg appear downright liberal.

Do you fear homosexuals or homosexuality itself? Why or why not?

BTW, Here is a video that ties Jason Russell's organization to the Washington group:

[identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com 2012-04-10 08:31 pm (UTC)(link)
It isn't true of almost all. It's classic redirection to try and claim that someone is against X because they are secretly X and hiding it.

[identity profile] vehemencet-t.livejournal.com 2012-04-10 08:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Um...I never said "almost all", I said "some". Maybe the article did and I missed it though. Regardless the point still stands that unlike you said, it has been shown that this is sometimes the case.

Which is all I was pointing out.

Like I said some straight people really are just *that* hurtful, hateful and bigoted.

[identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com 2012-04-10 08:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I know you didn't, but when some people say "oh not all are like that" they mean "most are", and I'm countering that with "no, almost none are" to be more specific. Yes, it is sometimes the case, in rare instances.

[identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com 2012-04-11 05:07 am (UTC)(link)
Dude you can't make this shit up. Maybe you've never met a closet case homophobe, but they are more common than you seem to believe.

[identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com 2012-04-11 06:59 am (UTC)(link)
I've seen people be accused of it quite often, on no basis, but I've never seen or heard of an actual one. I'll grant that there may be a few, but that certainly makes it seem very uncommon to me.

[identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com 2012-04-11 07:10 am (UTC)(link)
I've met more than one man who was out of the closet but clearly described his self loathing and homophobia while in the closet. I know one man who went to jail for fag bashing - and he fell in love with a man in jail and later came out.

Younger men who are confused or in the closet are often quite embarrassed due to the social stigma associated with homosexuality. Some even commit suicide when outed. Some will threaten to kick anyone ass who "says anything", etc. Rough trade.

Nature usually overcomes and they end up coming to terms with it as adults. Those who repress their sexuality can end up with violent or depressed behaviors. This phenomenon is not restricted to the homosexual community.

[identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com 2012-04-11 08:30 pm (UTC)(link)
You assume my experience is limited, and I'm not using solely my experience.

[identity profile] fornikate.livejournal.com 2012-04-11 08:37 pm (UTC)(link)
so then who else's experiences are you using?

[identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com 2012-04-11 08:40 pm (UTC)(link)
There are many sources of information in the world.

[identity profile] fornikate.livejournal.com 2012-04-11 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
indeed. that's what people are trying to get across to you.

[identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com 2012-04-12 09:18 am (UTC)(link)
Well, that's barking up the wrong tree then.