http://paedraggaidin.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] paedraggaidin.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] talkpolitics2012-02-07 02:34 pm

Last known surviving Great War veteran dies

Last known WWI veteran Florence Green dies at 110

This is not only the end of an era...it is, to me, a reminder of just how short-sided people tend to be these days (perhaps we Americans especially). The Great War (World War I, the First World War, the War to End All Wars, or what have you), which began ninety-eight years ago, is now as remote in time to us as the Napoleonic Wars were to the people of 1914, although the events of the Great War still largely shape the modern world to this very day. To a large extent, the people and nations of 1914 had forgotten how truly evil and destructive full-scale war was, as recruits enthusiastically shipped out to the front that summer, wildly cheered by adoring crowds suffused with a sense of glory and adventure. And who, these days, outside of university history departments and the ranks of military buffs, even knows the basic history of the war, why it happened, and how it changed the world?

And now, we can see the very same thing happening to our people as happened to those of 1914, as our Second World War veterans age into their eighties and nineties. As we approach the 75th anniversary of that war's beginning, is it even arguable that the West, by and large, has forgotten just how horrible and desperate full-scale war is? Especially here in the United States, where our armed forces has been all-volunteer for more than a generation, for many people the military has become an unfamiliar, mysterious, and even sinister entity; in my own family, dating back three generations, there has been only a single person who served in the military. I was seriously thinking about enlisting, but by the time I was in high school it was obvious that my health would preclude it; I was later privileged to have a semester internship with the Naval Historical Center (now the Naval History and Heritage Command) in Washington, DC. It was my first time working and socializing with active-duty personnel, and I am thankful for the experience.

Our Congress sees fewer veterans in its ranks every session, the last veteran on the Supreme Court retired in 2010, and we haven't had a president who served on active duty since 1992. I am certainly not saying that military service should be required to hold public office, but I am saying that, as the military becomes further and further removed from the daily lives of our citizens, we continue to lose a personal connection with the men and women who serve and protect our freedom. For all of our flag-waving patriotism, most of us don't know, and will never know, what it is like to have a close friend or family member in harm's way.

I would therefore like to take this opportunity to thank every member of [livejournal.com profile] talk_politics who has served in the military of any nation. You are the protectors and guarantors of the freedom and liberty we take so very much for granted.

[identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 08:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Should we require federal service for federal franchise?

[identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 08:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Then why even bring up the lowering number of veterans elected or appointed?

[identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 08:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Because those don't make as much sense as service requirements.

[identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 08:51 pm (UTC)(link)
It shows that an individual is willing to work for the common good.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 08:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree with this post.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 08:54 pm (UTC)(link)
In part because people that have seen war tend to be less eager to go into one than people that have no idea what it really means and involves.

[identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 08:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, that's a further argument for requiring federal service for federal franchise.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 09:01 pm (UTC)(link)
That's not entirely fair. Ironically Winston Churchill, of all people, was one of the few MPs to have actually seen the small wars of the time and gave a speech some years before WWI with a general gist of "You people are crazy and have no idea what you're talking about. Winning modern wars is about as bad as losing them. Stop it before you break yourselves."

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 09:01 pm (UTC)(link)
No, it's not an argument for that at all.

[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 09:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Great post. And along similar lines: NBC Nightly News had a feature on a nursing home trying to get WW2 vets to put their stories to paper and get them published.

Fascinating and heart breaking at the same time:

Image

Video here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46282406/ns/nightly_news/ns/nightly_news/#.TzGQsuSs_Wg

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 09:03 pm (UTC)(link)
The speech in question's here:

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/speeches/speeches-of-winston-churchill/108-army-reform

[identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Respect for the veterans and those who serve!

[identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 09:12 pm (UTC)(link)
You're welcome, and thanks for the thanks.

[identity profile] kayjayuu.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 09:29 pm (UTC)(link)
To second underlankers input, people in Congress, the Presidency, and the bureaucracy outside of the Pentagon are the ones who put things into motion and make decisions about going to war. If none of them have experienced it personally, they don't know what it's really like.

I'm not a vet. I'm married to a military historian (and have an interest) and was very close to my grandfather who served in The Great War. My aunt served as a nurse in WW2, my uncle was in the Pacific. My mother's generation lost lives, friends, and schoolmates. I live in a state with the highest percentage of currently serving active National Guard members, and a town small enough to know every one of those who don't come back to our state. And those who do.

And even I have no idea what it's like.

[identity profile] onefatmusicnerd.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 09:29 pm (UTC)(link)
It is an active assumption of responsibility for the nation's acts.

[identity profile] stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 09:32 pm (UTC)(link)

Our Congress sees fewer veterans in its ranks every session, the last veteran on the Supreme Court retired in 2010, and we haven't had a president who served on active duty since 1992.

Although I, too, thank our troops for their service, I think military service is mostly immaterial to our government leadership. I believe that military people go in and come out with the same political views and those views, for the most part, remain unchanged by the military.

The three generals that epitomize the military in my politically conscious years have been Norman Schwarzkopf, Colin Powell and David Patreas. All three of these generals graphically understood that the military was a tool of the United States and did not define our country.

To say that the military shaped George W. Bush, who didn’t see combat, and John McCain, who did; would not illustrate that their military service would temper their attitudes toward war.

[identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 09:34 pm (UTC)(link)
So using Churchill as an example, sometimes people who have seen war just get bloodlust and want to start wars everywhere.

[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com 2012-02-07 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Unfortunately the problem with this analysis is that the guys most directly responsible for WWI (again sticking with Churchill) were Berchtold and Conrad von Hotzendorf (I have no idea how to do an umlaut in LJ code). Neither of them saw any actual fighting. Emperor Franz-Josef, who did, wanted to die an old man who never started a war in his life.

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