Sexism in media.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

"What Does An Important Person Look Like?" That's the question Jennifer Dalton poses in her new "Cool Guys Like You" exhibition, opening Friday at New York's Winkleman Gallery. And in case you hadn't guessed, the answer is: a dude.
As Dalton explains in her statement about the installation, an open letter to talk show hosts "Bill/Brian/Charlie/Jon/Leonard/Rachel/Stephen/Terry": "When I looked closely at whom you interview -- the people you collectively decide are the most important of the moment -- I was very surprised…. In 2010, the most lopsided show among you featured only 17.5% female guests. The most balanced among you still only featured 34% female guest s…. If I may be so bold, WTF?"

From Salon.com : Does "The Daily Show" still have a woman problem?
BY MARY ELIZABETH WILLIAMS Posted on FRIDAY, SEP 9, 2011 14:10 ET 

Whenever anyone tries to talk about sexism the one frequently seen reflexive response is to say something along the lines of "there is a very good reason why there are more men than women" then reasons are given that range from the blatantly sexist (women are not funny) to the systemic (not enough women who can fit these roles, women don't want to do these things in large enough numbers) These responses can be found in the comments of the salon.com article --the trouble is all of these responses are cop-outs and they are rarely supported by data.

A quick internet search will tell you that women outnumber men in journalism schools, and women outnumber men in drama schools. This is a hard indication that women WANT these kinds of jobs and they WANT to be in the industry and they are studying and working toward that goal in large enough numbers that it should not be hard at all to find one good woman suited to a given job. Of coure, a degree doesn't make one qualified or good, but the idea that there isn't a sufficient pool of women seeking these positions is nothing more than a comforting myth that helps us ignore the 10,000 gorilla in the room:

That even funny, awesome, compassionate liberals can be sexist.

My challenge to you: Don't try to explain this away. Instead think of something, however large or small it might be, that you can do to change it. Do you need an incentive beyond simple justice and fairness? Well, think of this: When we tap in to all of those silent female voices we will have better media and funnier comedy, that's just what happens when you select from a bigger pool without sexist blinders on.

Comments

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

"When we tap in to all of those silent female voices we will have better media and funnier comedy, that's just what happens when you select from a bigger pool without sexist blinders on."

Are you saying comedy clubs, The Tonight Show, etc, are purposely (subconsciously or whatever) not choosing many females because they want males, or don't want females?

How about youube? I've seen several Ray William Annoying Orange Johnsons out there who get a million+ hits on each of their videos. I'm not aware of any female youtube comedians with that many hits***. Are all of us internet people biased too? Or could it be that like most sports, most of the best comedians are male?


*** Before anyone points out a female YOUTUBE comedian that gets a million+ hits per video as if that contradicts what I said, compare the number of such males to females.

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

Answers: Yes, Yes and No.

How ironic that in a post pointing out the kind of sexist answers one gets when discussing these matters the very first comment is exactly the response talked about in the OP.

Instead of falling back into ingrained sexism (you really think men are that much funnier than women?) how about you take a moment to examine how ridiculous this statement is and look for the real reasons behind it, that women are not being given the chances and the exposure that men are. That women are so easily dismissed. If this were to be changed I think the world would discover a large number of extremely talented and capable comedians and media representatives. We're missing out really.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

Great, so the whole world is biased against female comedians.

Ever think that maybe it's reality conflicting with your dogmatic beliefs?

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

looking right back at ya. Sexism IS rampant in society. We will automatically assume a woman is not as funny as a man so women are not given the same chance. It is far more ridiculous to proclaim that women are not as funny or not as talented as men.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

"We will automatically assume a woman is not as funny"

Oh of course. And your evidence for this is....?

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

You? And the attitudes of millions like you? And the statistics given in the OP? What is more likely, that women are not funny (even though there are countless very funny women out there) or that they are not being given the chance men are? This is not a difficult concept. But you keep clinging to that sexist belief that men are funnier. Oh, and better at sports. And I'm sure in your mind better at a whole host of things. Without even realizing it you are proving my and the OP's point.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

I'm not clinging to anything, I would have no problem with an equal number of funny female comedians, I'm simply looking at facts, and not relying on unproved psychobabbnle whose evidence is that reality conflicts with the dogmatic belief. You have a completely circular system going.

"Oh, and better at sports."

Yes, you are quite dogmatic. The easiest sports to compare are individual sports without judges. Try actually looking at record times for track events, distances in shotput and javelin, height in highjump, amount of weight lifted, ...

The reason that these sports are segregated is because if they weren't men would win all the medals. OMG sexist! sexiest! sexist!

No, it's reality reality reality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

In some sports, yes physiological differences between men and women are going to give men the edge. But there are many that women can and do perform at the same level and even better in some cases - and those cases are growing as women are being given more of a chance.

However, being funny is not a physiological condition. So it really does not explain away your belief.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

My belief?

I'm looking at evidence, not explaining the evidence away with unproven assumptions.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

'But there are many that women can and do perform at the same level and even better in some cases - and those cases are growing as women are being given more of a chance.'

Which sports?

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

Walk into your local comedy club, you'll see the audience has more men in it than women. Look at the roster, you'll notice more men on it than women.

It's not that people are sexist, it's that the odds favor those who put more effort into making it their career. For every famous male comedian there's thousands who worked the club circuit for years and never got famous. The reason why more females are becoming famous in their fields is because there's actually more females entering these fields. Some are actually trying to compete against men and work hard for it.

Women can be funny. So can the guy at the local comedy club who'll never be famous because he does a set only a few times a year and he doesn't try and spread them around.

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

I can agree with this to a point. But I maintain that the reason women were not putting the effort in was because they were, until recently, up against nearly insurmountable odds in succeeding. Now that more women have blazed that trail you do see more females entering the field and putting the work into it that men have all these years.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Maybe women don't attend the local comedy club en masse because they know how much sexist, gross jokes are the staple of male comedians' lineups? Because seriously, I would never, ever go to a comedy club to see someone I hadn't at least heard of before - I've gotten burned too many times by going to listen to a comedian on Youtube or something and finding that they were unapologetically, disgustingly misogynistic.

It's not that people are sexist, it's that the odds favor those who put more effort into making it their career.

Except that a lot of women don't try to "make it their career" because they know they won't get anywhere -- because of sexism. If you know you'll never succeed in a given field, you wouldn't want to put everything you have into it, would you?

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

'I've gotten burned too many times by going to listen to a comedian on Youtube or something and finding that they were unapologetically, disgustingly misogynistic.'

To be fair, you think chunky peanut butter is misogynistic.

'Except that a lot of women don't try to "make it their career" because they know they won't get anywhere -- because of sexism.'

Yea, and I was going to become a nurse but alas... sexism.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

To be fair, you think chunky peanut butter is misogynistic.

Yes, yes, continue on being ridiculously facetious because I dare to acknowledge and speak out against sexism in society. How awful of me, etc. etc.

Yea, and I was going to become a nurse but alas... sexism.

Actually, yeah. Sexism in society dictates that lower-wage "carer" professions such as nursing are the domain of women, and men who enter fields like that are bound to be treated badly for taking a "woman's job," going into a "women's field," and so on. But if you're trying to say it's sexism against men that causes this, you're way off - it's sexism against women, which says doing things a woman is "supposed to do" (thus "being like a woman") is inherently bad and has no value, because (dun dun dun) it's done by women.

Not that I think you're not just being facetious again, but hey. Serious answer to silly remark, why not? I'm tired enough and I ran out of Avengers fanart.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

While I think the majority of "there is sexism in X" complaints are bull, there is a fairly ridiculous persistent belief that women are not as funny as men. This is a valid complaint.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

"women are not as funny as men"

As stated, that is a retarded statement. But the statement "most of the best comedians are male" isn't. You really think audiences don't laugh as much because the comedian is female?

The idea that women aren't funny and the idea that women are just as funny as men are both dogmatic beliefs not supported by reality.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I don't disagree, but the reality is people still believe it. Even in modern times (http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2007/01/hitchens200701).

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

'Best' is a subjective statement. Most of the most popular comedians are male. And yes, I think it's because people will automatically assume that the man will be funnier and are more likely to laugh at his jokes. It's human nature to follow the crowd, to find things funny because we have been conditioned to.

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

Comedy is subjective. The measure of success is whether people people laugh at something, whether they find something funny. Maybe if members of the audience had been raised in a different environment, conditioned differently, their sense of humour would have developed in a more gender balanced manner. But a comedian has to entertain the audience as it is, not as it should be.

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

I can agree with this, it actually goes along with what I was saying. I think it will take an overhaul of attitudes to bring female comedians on a fully equal standing with the men. But I do see it happening one day.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Are you saying comedy clubs, The Tonight Show, etc, are purposely (subconsciously or whatever) not choosing many females because they want males, or don't want females?

Er, yes, actually. Because believe it or not, even comedy clubs and the Tonight Show can be sexist. And they are.

Are all of us internet people biased too?

Yes. This really should be kind of a "no shit, Sherlock" thing. Of course "internet people" can be sexist. And they by and large are.

Or could it be that like most sports, most of the best comedians are male?

lolwhut. So your response to a question about sexism is to give us some sexism? Cos um, no, there are tons of very, very funny women out there - and tons of women who are very awesome at sports. Thing is, sexism not only denies them success within those fields due to societal stereotypes that women aren't as good at sports or as good at being funny as men, but it also denies them the ability and opportunity to try in the first place. It is incredibly difficult to succeed as a female comedian, and many women aren't going to even try because of the perception that they won't make it through the door in most places.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

"Thing is, sexism not only denies them success within those fields due to societal stereotypes that women aren't as good at sports"

This is a stereotype?
Do you honestly think the NFL or NBA would be 50% female, or even 5% female, if not for people's attitudes? Do you honestly think track and field world records would be held by 50% women, or even 15% women, if only society were unbiased?

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it is a stereotype. And actually, yes, I do. Not least because if it weren't for societal attitudes that women are "less than," especially in sports, the WNBA and other women's sports organizations, leagues and what have you would be a great deal more popular, and would probably have the same following as the NBA and other men's sports. Women's accomplishments would be more noted, as well, rather than glossed over.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

'Not least because if it weren't for societal attitudes that women are "less than," especially in sports, the WNBA and other women's sports organizations, leagues and what have you would be a great deal more popular, and would probably have the same following as the NBA and other men's sports.'

Watching the WNBA is like watching college basketballs from the 50s. And I find modern B-ball kinda boring.

Oddly enough the LPGA is quite popular. Gee, I wonder if it's because the women are good enough to warrant as much attention as the men.