Eugenics, genetics, your kids and mine...

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

An important question looming on the horizon is: "to what extent can couples determine the genetic make-up of their kids."

I have a simple answer: "It's not evil eugenics if a majority of those with the genetic trait advocate helping future children avoid it. "


For example, I'm quite short, this has not really had a positive impact on my life my husband is tall and I'd be quite happy to let his genes take over the whole height thing. I'd have a similar feeling were I abnormally tall. On the other hand it'd make me angry if someone ruled out darker skin for our child, that'd be cowing to the pressure of racism, I think ... and creepy. (dark skin also protects one from skin cancers and painful sunburns) I don't envy the lengths my husband must go to avoid getting burned. My husband has often been quite cheerful about the prospect of his kids not having a hard time with the sun as he has.

So, I think the solution is to ask people who have these traits if they *want* them passed on or not. In that sense, maybe the "looming question" isn't so big-- most couples will naturally want persevere human diversity, but will not have much interest in saving traits that just make life more difficult.

But of course things are not that simple. Many black folks (for example) might have chosen lighter skin (and some might do so today) to protect their child from racism. I find this depressing and my instinct is to find a way to prevent it. But, should the state have any place in such choices?

There are lots of people who would quickly choose to reduce the chance of their child being gay (I doubt being gay is as simple as a single gene, so mercifully it may not be possible to tamper with this without tampering with other traits) --on the one hand, maybe it's good that gay kids don't end up being born to intolerant people, on the other, there are enough intolerant people that, if the genetics of sexuality were simple enough, we'd probably see a sharp decine in the gay population. I think this is really depressing.

Now I treated the height issue like it was simple, but there are probably some short people who feel differently.

I think we could come up with reasonable laws by asking those who have a given gene what they think about people selecting for it or against it.

And now for a incomplete poll:


[Poll #1768916]

PS. Here is a great documentary that relates to these questions.

Comments

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

I just really dislike my body. It feels like it's the wrong body or someone else's body. When transexuals talk about having the wrong body I know EXACTLY what they are saying. I have never felt beautiful normal or at home in my body for a single moment of my life mostly because of my height. (but also my weight, but really it's just the way weight relates to height, I suffered from anorexia mostly because I thought if I were only thin enough I'd seem taller. It's like the photo of the rhino on the treadmill looking at the photo of the unicorn. Only it's just sad ... not funny. No amount of dieting will make me taller. I had to go half way to the grave an back just to figure that out.)

There is a huge mis-match between the person I want to see myself as and the person that I am. I remember being about 15 and going to se the doctor. The doctor said something about my height like "How do you feel about being short?" I replied "It's not a big deal when I'm done growing I won't need to put up with this anymore."

The doctor said "well how much more do you think you'll grow?" I was about 4'9" at the time and the shortest in my 4,000 student high school "Oh, about a foot." I said. I was totally serious. Then he told me that I'd be 5'1" or less. I was totally crushed.

Most people insist that I must change my mind to suit my body. They assume this is something superficial. That it's just about looking good. The thing is I don't care how I look to other people. If everyone saw a super short person when they met me, but if I could *feel* normal about that, or feel tall it'd be fine. I've tried this. I would love to be able to do that but it doesn't work. I'm glad to not be as depressed anymore (SSRIs have worked for me) I mostly avoid mirrors and thinking about my body and if I do that I'm OK. I can focus on the many good things in my life. I try not to look at my arms when I'm typing. (I'm just trying to give you an idea of how much this bothers me.)

My mother and father are both short mom is 5' dad is 5'4" they did a pretty good job of hiding it from me but they are not happy either. Nor were any of my grandparents. All four of them were under 5'4" The odd thing is I don't want any of them to change. I like them the way that they are, but I can see that there's this sadness, I see it in my aunts and uncles as well (but only the short ones!)

The only person who is happy with their height is my brother who is 5'8" --he just seems to be so much better of than the rest of us. Oh and a few uncles, all of the medium or tall ones don't have the sadness.

I have often pondered bone extension, but it's so expensive. I know two people who have had it (both from China) and it really improved their lives. They are adamant about this. They look only a little different to me, but it's more about how they feel. So, I don't rule it out. That could be the solution. (for me)

Everyone talks about loving yourself and all of this Mr. Rogers crap but it has never actually applied in my life. I really think that kind of talk is to make the awkwardness that people feel when presented with another person in the grip of toxic self loathing go away. It's against the magical thinking philosophy that it is only whats inside that "counts" to say otherwise. What's outside counts too. We live in these bodies for all the time that we have on earth, if making changes can make us happer that's not superficial, it's important.


I really glad that you are "better adjusted" (as some might say) than I am. Yet, I doubt my kids would be as lucky as you. They would pick up the unhappiness from me, it's not realistic for me to pretend I could hid it from them. Kids learn by watching who we are. I'm certain height will be a fairly simple matter genetically and if that's the case I'll do whatever I can to spare my kids all of this.

[mijan.livejournal.com]

Uh-huh. I see.

I'm genderqueer. I was born with a female body, but I identify as male. In my mind, as I have told many people, I'm a 6'1" man. But really, comparing a dislike of your height to being transgendered? You know EXACTLY what we feel like? *shakes head* The human BRAIN is hardwired for gender identity and sexual attraction, and it's been shown many times that transgendered and gay people's brains show distinct development like the brains of straight people of the opposite biological sex. In contrast, there's no such thing as a "tall brain" or "short brain." You have no idea what we go through, but for the sake of argument, I'll allow the comparison. Your body doesn't match your inner self. That sucks. I get it.

I've been anorexic. I've been bulimic. I've been depressed. I've had major body issues.

So, mark my word, I know what it's like to look in the mirror and have a huge disconnect with what I see. I didn't let it stop me from DOING what I want to do in life. It didn't "keep me from my dreams." From what I can see, your dream is simply to be tall. So... okay, yes, you're right: being short will keep you from being tall. It's a tragedy.

It's not about being "better adjusted." There's a difference between adjusting and having true psychological issues. Clearly, you have the latter. Your height itself didn't ruin your life. Your reaction to it did. And maybe your family's constant negativity (ie. "being short is horrible") added to that. And I fully acknowledge that having a mental or emotional disorder is a serious condition that needs treatment. However, being short is not a disorder, a handicap (within reason), or a condition. If anything, as a person who has more experience with this sort of thing than you might imagine, I'd say you should be more concerned about the genetic links of depression and other mental health conditions. Your height itself isn't the problem. The fact that you're still blaming your height for your poor mental and emotional health means you're putting the cart before the horse.

Yeah, that's right.

The height itself isn't the problem. Clearly, height hasn't PHYSICALLY handicapped you. It emotionally and mentally handicapped you, and your condition is not "because you're short." It's because you are predisposed to emotional/mental health issues. Your height was a trigger, but not the foundation cause of your issues.

Listen, I doubt I will ever be able to physically transition genders (hormones and surgery) because of my medical condition. Whether I do or not, I live in a world where not only does my body not match my mind, but I can also be overtly discriminated against. And yeah, I'm short. And yes, I had severe body image issues and depression. And instead of wallowing in it and pondering the extermination of my genetic lineage because I feared sentencing them to my own misery, I focused on accomplishing things in life that I wanted to do, and be myself, regardless of how the world saw me. I'm not saying that you have to do that, or that you can do it. You're not me.

Just like unrealistic air-brushed models and ludicrous standards of fashion turn young girls into anorexic basket cases, some psychological (societal, familial, whatever) pressure triggered you into obsessing about your height. I'm sorry you've suffered through that. I seriously am. I'm sure it's been hell, and that you've been emotionally torn apart by this. I empathize... these conditions are damaging and horrible. But I say again... it wasn't caused by your height.

Reassess what the root of your problem really is. Your height hasn't held you back from anything. But it seems that a very real underlying mental health condition has wreaked havoc on your life. For THAT, I feel deep sympathy for you. But not for your height.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

Listen, I doubt I will ever be able to physically transition genders (hormones and surgery) because of my medical condition. Whether I do or not, I live in a world where not only does my body not match my mind, but I can also be overtly discriminated against. And yeah, I'm short. And yes, I had severe body image issues and depression. And instead of wallowing in it and pondering the extermination of my genetic lineage because I feared sentencing them to my own misery, I focused on accomplishing things in life that I wanted to do, and be myself, regardless of how the world saw me. I'm not saying that you have to do that, or that you can do it. You're not me.

You're acting like I live under a rocking crying all day. I have a pretty good life, a great husband, a job that I love, I accomplish a whole lot.

I don't view this discussion as extermination but rather giving a young person a chance for a better life than mine. I think it's a very positive thing it's like being able to erase all of that bad crap once and for all.

The only mental health issue I have is depression and I'm treated for that and doing quite well.