It's official: Netanyahu is anti-Israel

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Or so it would seem, according to so many right-wing commentators, now that Netanyahu is in line with the policy of 1967+swaps stated by Obama a few months back.

To me, it just looks like there's now a stable groundwork for some sort of talk. This isn't a sea change, it's a recognition of what has been broadly-held policy for the last twenty years or so. It's good that Obama was willing to take the first step in saying that these should be the negotiating grounds, and to put that policy in to the full view of the world. It may have been the unstated policy of prior administrations, but unstated policies are obviously a helluva lot less effective at setting expectations. The real question will be how they handle the settlements. If Israel continues building settlements outside of the 1967 borders, it will be difficult to take seriously any claims that they're negotiating in good faith over those borders.

Odds of a retraction from the right-wing pundits on this one? Or is it just that Netanyahu (who doesn't seem to have cared all that much for what America thinks of his policies) is being strong-armed into this position?

Comments

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Expecting consistency from ideologues is like trying to polish a turd: it never has or will happen.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Except you can actually polish a turd, and on a cable-sized budget no less! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI)

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

is being strong-armed into this position?

The question will be whether he holds to this when Obama leaves office, or if he's just saying this now to play nice.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

He's gonna delay this till 2016?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Like he's getting reelected.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Well, he is an incumbent. So the real question (and probably one for another post) isn't whether a candidate with his record would lose, but rather who can overcome his incumbency? I just don't see a candidate who can survive the primaries, without a major shift in the Republican base's voting patterns, and still win a national election.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

So... the Israelis are being deliberately disingenuous with the Palestinian peace process in an effort to con America into continuing to support them without question.

Somehow Netanyahu doesn't look any better under your theory...

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Time for a new round of betting?!?!?

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Even more cynically: The article stated that the offer was conditional on Palestine dropping the statehood vote at the UN. If they manage to short-circuit that vote, they reset the clock and can go back to stonewalling, free from a recognition vote.

An optimistic part of me wants to think this isn't what's happening, but...

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Right now, Romney can win if he gets out of the primary (unlikely), Perry if he gets in, Pawlenty if he catches some fire. Bachmann has a tougher road, but it's going to be difficult for Obama to win with the economy the way it is, with the unemployment the way it is, and with nothing of value to run on.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

More that he knows working with Obama is foolish, so he's telling us what we want to hear.

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

Historically, Presidents don't get re-elected when unemployment remains above 7 percent. Obama is in deep shit right now. The Republicans would have to screw up really awful to not re-take the White House.

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

What are the stakes?

I'm betting that Obama doesn't get re-elected. I also bet that after the Republicans re-take the Oval Office, the economy improves and both sides scramble to take credit for it. With the Left saying, "See? It's because of policies enacted under Obama finally bearing fruit" and the Right saying, "No, it's because of budget concessions we won during the budget crisis."

Or something similar.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Eh, it's way early still. Look where Reagan was at the start of 1984

PDF here. (http://www.pagnet.org/documents/RDC/EconSnaps/Employment/Unemployment.pdf)

[mrsilence.livejournal.com]

It's not like the Israeli's have ever played the game differently under other U.S. presidents.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Who do you think is going to beat him?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Mickey Mouse could beat him.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

I'm betting on a Palin/Bachmann ticket. FTW!

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Election predictability went out the window in 2004.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

It's weird. How can they agree to the borders but not recognize statehood? What do the borders matter if Palestine is still part of Israel?

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

You think Bush could've lost in 2004? He was a wartime incumbent. He was a shoe-in on Sept 12.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

They don't want the recognition vote. Doesn't mean they won't recognize statehood if it ever happens, but they may recognize it as the founding of the Palestinian state, rather than its liberation.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Oh, please, he wants to keep his job in the wake of the protests roiling Egypt by giving token not-deals to the Palestinians to shut them and his opposition up. This only works if you assume the USA is behind or influencing everything Israel does.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Election predictability has always relied on assumptions that assume generalities always apply. Bush was an effective politician, Kerry was not, that's why he won 2004. Similarly Obama is an effective politician where in 2008 John McCain was not.

[surferelf.livejournal.com]

None of the currently declared Republican candidates have a chance because they either believe the crazy (Bachmann, Cain & Paul) which means independents won't vote for them, or they can't convincingly speak crazyese (Pawlenty, Romney & Gingrich), and are therefore unacceptable to the base. The only guy who can pull off that balancing act is Rick Perry. He has the advantage because, as a Texan, people expect him to be nuts. All he has to do is show the occasional flash of not-crazy during the campaign and he will have the independents eating out of his hand.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

You're confusing effective politician with popular.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

That's some pedantic bullshit right there.

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

Election predictability went out the window in 2004.

Did it now? I figured Bush would win at the time and he did. It was simple too. Nobody could figure out what Kerry actually stood for.

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

Who do you think is going to beat him?

Not sure. At this point, I have no idea who the Republicans will run. But it matters little. The only thing Obama has going for him is upcoming troop withdrawals. That will at least please a war-weary nation. Like I said, the Republicans will have to pull a truly epic pooch screw to lose.

Of course, that isn't beyond the realm of all possibility either.

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

Effective politicians? If there is such a thing then bigfoot, unicorns, and dancing elves must also be real.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

That might be a mistake others would make, but it's not mine. Political effectiveness and popularity often are inversely related. The ones who want to be popular tend to be ineffective. The assholes like Cheney and FDR are extremely effective.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

It's always extremely unpopular to do what is right it seems.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Definitely. Had the 1940s Tea Partiers, the Taft-Republicans had their way Europe and Asia would be the Greater German Empire and the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.