ext_370466 ([identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] talkpolitics2013-09-07 06:55 pm
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An open letter from a dinosaur

Dear Progressives,

Turn-about being fair play, I figured that I'd write a mirrior of Bean's post But where to start?


A couple months back Johnathan Korman wrote an excellent post on the poles of american politics. In it was the following line ...the correct social order is natural but not effortless — without devotion to the correct social order, conservatives believe we devolve into barbarism.

Do you genuinely believe that if you'd been transported back to fifteenth-century London as a baby, you'd realize all on your own that witch-burning was wrong, slavery was wrong, that every sentient being ought to be in your circle of concern? If so I'd like to know why,because as far as I can tell Homo Sapiens today are no more mentally capable than the Homo Sapiens of 500 years ago. I assert that our current high quality of life has more to do with culture and technology than it does with any inherent superiority to those who came before us. The fact of the matter is that we live in a civil society where, for the most part, people raise their kids to obey the law, pay their taxes, and generally not kill each-other without a damn good reason. It is this state of civility that conservatives seek to conserve.

The majority of these conservation efforts focus on individual and family responsibilities/virtue. They operate on the theory that if you want innovation you need to reward innovation. If you want virtue reward virtue. If you want stable kids reward stable families, because barbarity is never more than a generation or two away. If you want good social order we must reward virtue and punish vice.

It is in this space that intent runs head-long into perceived intent, and I start to turn into my grandad...

Using anfalicious' recent example, I am simply flabbergasted that a "post-gendered society" is even a topic of discussion outside of science fiction. Feminism has moved from arguing that women should be treated equal and have the same rights as men, etc... To that that men and women should be interchangeable. I am expected ignore the fact that the burden of reproduction is carried disproportionately by the female of the species. I am expected to ignore the differences in biology. To ignore the different strengths and weaknesses of both and how they compliment each other. I am expected to be genderless. I am not therefore I am a misogynist.

Global warming is based on computer models that keep failing. Catastrophic predictions are constantly proven wrong and (surprise, surprise) the only solution ever proposed is higher taxes and greater regulatory powers. I suspect that a dog is being wagged therefore I am a "denier".

I don't want to live in a world of "Honor Killings" and medieval torture and I refuse to coddle or kow-tow to those that do therefore I am a Islamiphobe.

I oppose gun control therefore I want children to die.

I support voter ID laws therefore I am a Racist.

Fascist.

Terrorist.

Killer.

I could go on...

These are labels that have been applied to me by my so-called intellectual and moral "betters" in an effort to shut me up.

I am a dinosaur. Hear me roar.

[identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 02:46 am (UTC)(link)
Global warming is based on computer models that keep failing.

Going to need a citation for that one.

[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 02:53 am (UTC)(link)
The WSJ editorial page.

But I'm sure a long list of maverick scientists who aren't sheeple will be forthcoming with links to Watts Up with That, and assorted global warming-contrarian websites.
Edited 2013-09-08 02:57 (UTC)

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 03:27 am (UTC)(link)
I don't want to live in a world of "Honor Killings" and medieval torture

I don't either, that's why I have been so vehemently against us water boarding and torturing our prisoners.

[identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 04:13 am (UTC)(link)
I am simply flabbergasted that a "post-gendered society" is even a topic of discussion outside of science fiction. Feminism has moved from arguing that women should be treated equal and have the same rights as men, etc... To that that men and women should be interchangeable.

Not really, at least not a majority of them.


I am expected ignore the fact that the burden of reproduction is carried disproportionately by the female of the species. I am expected to ignore the differences in biology. To ignore the different strengths and weaknesses of both and how they compliment each other. I am expected to be genderless

You're misunderstanding the difference between actual, physical and biological differences, and differences that only exist because they were created by societies and tradition. Only one of those two is objected to, and only objected to when they are expected to be followed, and punished when deviated from.


Global warming is based on computer models that keep failing.

Wrong.

Catastrophic predictions are constantly proven wrong

Wrong.

the only solution ever proposed is higher taxes and greater regulatory powers.

Wrong.

I am a "denier".

Well, if you have a better word to describe someone who denies proven facts...?

[identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 04:24 am (UTC)(link)
wait. All you did was diametrically contradict him without a hint of proof why you think he is wrong?

I know you can do better than that.

[identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 04:39 am (UTC)(link)
I oppose gun control therefore I want children to die.

I support voter ID laws therefore I am a Racist.

Again: absolutes and matter of degrees are sometimes confused in the Liberal mind.

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 04:41 am (UTC)(link)
I am simply flabbergasted that a "post-gendered society" is even a topic of discussion outside of science fiction. Feminism has moved from arguing that women should be treated equal and have the same rights as men, etc... To that that men and women should be interchangeable.

I think someone is confusing feminism with LBGT rights, nobody is telling anyone to be a man or woman but if one feels inclined to be the other I don't think there should be any social stigma against it. That is more within the topic of transgender.
Edited 2013-09-08 04:42 (UTC)

I'm not sure how morals comes into this definition.

[identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 04:49 am (UTC)(link)
yeah well...labels and all, they really hurt. But I wonder about your definition of 'conservative' because it differs from mine.

from Merry ole Merriam: at the root, the word conservative means one who conserves (duh). What does conserve mean exactly?
to keep in a safe or sound state [he conserved his inheritance]; especially: to avoid wasteful or destructive use of [conserve natural resources]
The whole conserve natural resources irony (Drill baby, drill!, strip mining, fracking, timber felling et al) is not lost here.

What I see as a 'true' conservative, as opposed to a Republican Voter, is one who wishes to keep government safe (from radical ideas that would not work, as opposed to radical ideas that will)..

and sound (without too cumbersome a level of law that impinges on individual rights supposedly honored by the sitting government by rule of the US constitution)

A conservative is one who wants to avoid unnecessary waste (in the policy form of wasted tax revenue on plans that do not provide long term solutions), as well as avoid the destructive powers a government can muster against enemies without and it's people within.

Your definition is too vague. Just WHO gets to set the standard for what is 'virtuous'? Which holy book is the standard for setting the defining morals of conservative society, the KJV? The Koran? The Torah?

No sir, the moralists are not conservatives in my eye, they are those who I regrettably label 'the right wing', 'the GOP', 'the Moral Majority'.

Regrettable only that labels are the easiest way to keep us divided and bickering.

I can respect your opinion of what a conservative is, but I'd rather think it better to keep an eye on government, rather than on how your neighbor is living their life.

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 04:57 am (UTC)(link)
Is some of this the difference between fiscal and social conservatives? I know there's the ones who would like to just focus on the government, but at the same time there are those that want to preserve at all costs the idea of the Christian Nation and scale back any influence our diverse population has had on it. You know, those darn gays, Muslims, athiests etc.

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 05:10 am (UTC)(link)
Well there's that and the plain old Grandma Conservative

You know that one, the one that shows up at a family reunion and brings up politics in a conversation just to have something to rant about, if it wasn't that they'd go on about those damn kids and their hippity hop music and running around with their pants bellow their waist.

[identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 05:20 am (UTC)(link)
I will get grief for this, but I think that the concept of a social conservative is actually contradictory. There is nothing in the definition of a conservative that allows for such nuance.

Again, just my opinion.

Social conservatives are something else; their moral bias priority in governing overrides their conservative principle of 'live and let live'.

They want to use government more to control how people live their lives than even the liberal does. That is one of the parts of the dogma others see as 'hypocrisy'.

Eventually, one gets lumped into a general category with the hypocrites and you have the very real and valid frustrations of the OP.

[identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 05:22 am (UTC)(link)
don't get me started on the droopy draws!

[identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 05:24 am (UTC)(link)
They are not prisoners!

They are...whachamallits..

[identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 05:40 am (UTC)(link)
Actually, if you were doing this the other way around, you would be calling out the Democrats for their hypocrisy. Instead it's the GOP Victimhood Complex again.

[identity profile] lafinjack.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 06:43 am (UTC)(link)
East Anglia!

[identity profile] lafinjack.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 06:43 am (UTC)(link)
No he didn't.

[identity profile] lafinjack.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 06:45 am (UTC)(link)
I am expected ignore the fact that the burden of reproduction is carried disproportionately by the female of the species. I am expected to ignore the differences in biology. To ignore the different strengths and weaknesses of both and how they compliment each other. I am expected to be genderless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

[identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 07:00 am (UTC)(link)
ye...

[identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 07:02 am (UTC)(link)
How about the data from the last decade that shows the model used by the IPCC has consistently predicted warming when none took place. Available here (http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/curry_less_warming_than_predicted_models_seem_wrong/).

The model does a great job of fitting to historical data but has been consistently terrible at predicting future temperatures.

[identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 09:18 am (UTC)(link)
http://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y

[identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 09:26 am (UTC)(link)
If you want good social order we must reward virtue and punish vice.

And same-sex marriage, is of course, a society-destroying phenomenon, originating from a dangerous vice, therefore it should be fought with all means. Right?

[identity profile] luzribeiro.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 09:30 am (UTC)(link)
Roar? More like moan.

[identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 09:32 am (UTC)(link)
Apparently, that was designed to be a negative that can't be proven. ;)

[identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 09:33 am (UTC)(link)
What, you want no gun control whatsoever?

[identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 09:36 am (UTC)(link)
O, snap.

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