Honestly: the minimum wage does need to go up

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

This post got me thinking.

I am firmly in favor of:

A) A higher minimum wage in the whole US, and my home state of NY
B) Honesty in politics

While the OP I linked to is not exactly dishonest, it's not exactly honest either.
And this is not to put flak upon the poster there, but it's an example of political rhetoric that is used to leverage one side of a conversation, ignoring nuance.

the graphic in the linked to OP:

1) Doesn't seem to take into account state laws that raise min wage over fed laws
2) Doesn't take into account the vast difference in housing throughout a state

My objection is more with 2 than 1. 1 is easy to take care of, but 2 is not easy.

New York City is WAYYYY more expensive than Rochester or Buffalo, NY; or a large number of other places within the state I could name. Yet, this graphic gives us a number, presumably an average. But that average is way skewed. But how else should they do it? Give us on graphic for NYC and another for the rest of NY State? That wouldn't work either, because then you'd need to break it down for other cities and so on. So what do we do?

We must talk about things in the big picture without getting bogged down in details, otherwise we will have to talk for eons before we can understand what needs to be done. So while I agree that the min wage needs to go up, across the US, I have a problem with the info-graphics created to support that argument. They lack nuance, and as such, are deceiving. Even if they don't mean to be, and are honestly doing the best they can to compile and sort the data, the inevitability of misleading data is going to doom us all.

That said.
Happy saint patty's day.
Was I drunk when I wrote this? You decide.

Comments

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

But higher wages means more spending, typically discretionary (our economy depends on a lot of this type spending, agreed?). In the US we are now moving away from manufacturing to service based jobs. So more jobs are created from the increase spending.

Supply/demand, etc.

The jobs and hours eliminated by MW raises will just move to another sector.

Kind of like squeezing a balloon or fighting drug wars, Jeff. Mash down one place and another pops up on the other side.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

But higher wages means more spending, typically discretionary (our economy depends on a lot of this type spending, agreed?).

Agreed to a point - I think we disagree on the matter of degree.

When you're talking wages this low, however, we're not talking a lot more spending, and the spending is offset by the other distortions it causes. If you're giving everyone an extra 50 cents an hour, the ripple is going to have an impact close to, if not exceeding, that amount depending on a number of factors.

Kind of like squeezing a balloon or fighting drug wars, Jeff. Mash down one place and another pops up on the other side.

Right. The fight to find an artificial basement for wages is a losing proposition - it's not helpful to those who might actually need it, it's not helpful to those who don't need it, it doesn't do a good enough job working itself out for cost of living differentials from area to area.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

" If you're giving everyone an extra 50 cents an hour, the ripple is going
to have an impact close to, if not exceeding, that amount depending on a
number of factors."

that, that right there, PROVE IT!

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Math. Math proves it, man. That gap needs to be made up.

The number may be negligible. It may be erased by broader economic circumstances. But it's there.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

That did not prove anything.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I assume you don't understand math. Let's try something else.

You have $10 for gas every week. You have some flexibility there, but you really can't surpass $10. Sometimes you'll only spend $9, other weeks you're right at $10, but you're not able to go past $10 without sacrifices, and there's not really any other avenues of income for you to increase your overall budget. Thankfully, you haven't had to.

But here I come, and I'm going to say "y'know, gas next week is going to cost you $11. That's the new cost. See you next week."\

"But why?" you ask! "Nothing has changed for me, I can't afford this."

"You'll figure it out. After all, it's just an attempt to make sure I get paid fairly for the gas I sell you!"

So now what? You have some options, sure - you can decrease your gas consumption to keep yourself within $10. You can decrease other consumptions to free up money for the $11. But you can't just absorb the cost and spend the extra $1 you don't have.

Welcome to the minimum wage hike.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

on these things, we agree.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

'Kind of like squeezing a balloon or fighting drug wars, Jeff. Mash down one place and another pops up on the other side. '

That other place is China.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

yeah, mcdonalds is gonna shut down ALL ITS STORES in the US and ship them to china.
that makes sense.


wait....

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

after China, it will be..India? Brazil? I mean, we can't keep on being number one forever...