Honestly: the minimum wage does need to go up

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

This post got me thinking.

I am firmly in favor of:

A) A higher minimum wage in the whole US, and my home state of NY
B) Honesty in politics

While the OP I linked to is not exactly dishonest, it's not exactly honest either.
And this is not to put flak upon the poster there, but it's an example of political rhetoric that is used to leverage one side of a conversation, ignoring nuance.

the graphic in the linked to OP:

1) Doesn't seem to take into account state laws that raise min wage over fed laws
2) Doesn't take into account the vast difference in housing throughout a state

My objection is more with 2 than 1. 1 is easy to take care of, but 2 is not easy.

New York City is WAYYYY more expensive than Rochester or Buffalo, NY; or a large number of other places within the state I could name. Yet, this graphic gives us a number, presumably an average. But that average is way skewed. But how else should they do it? Give us on graphic for NYC and another for the rest of NY State? That wouldn't work either, because then you'd need to break it down for other cities and so on. So what do we do?

We must talk about things in the big picture without getting bogged down in details, otherwise we will have to talk for eons before we can understand what needs to be done. So while I agree that the min wage needs to go up, across the US, I have a problem with the info-graphics created to support that argument. They lack nuance, and as such, are deceiving. Even if they don't mean to be, and are honestly doing the best they can to compile and sort the data, the inevitability of misleading data is going to doom us all.

That said.
Happy saint patty's day.
Was I drunk when I wrote this? You decide.

Comments

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

As noted elsewhere in the thread, the causation is fairly clear. It's a key point minimum and living wage advocates need to either ignore ot diminish, because it defeats the point.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

you cant just say the causation is clear and have that be your argument.

spell it out, specifically and with detail.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

It's spelled out - wages artificially rise, fewer employment hours, higher costs, etc. It's called basic math.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

you're words are not a citation
provide citations

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

The citations are elsewhere in the thread.

I've made an error, in any regard - the issue is not whether we should raise the wage, but whether we should have one at all.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

precisely right--your arguments stem from that very debate.
should we have a min wage?

and, yes, we got one, and no, that didnt shut factories down.
so no, your side lost. we got a min wage and the shit yall feared didnt happen, so STFU and get with the times.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

My side definitely lost, but that doesn't mean we were wrong.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

it doesnt require that your side is wrong, cause it lost, but since it lost we can look at the effect of the policy your side is against. the effects of the policy are NOT what you claim them to be, yet you continue to use arguments that HAVE BEEN SHOWN BY HISTORY TO BE WRONG

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

You haven't demonstrated them to be wrong yet.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

The empirical facts do.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Okay, let me try debating like you:

Minimum wage has improved society. Need a citation? Look around, it's fairly clear.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Let me try debating like you:

Hey, you just said that minimum wage didn't improve society!


This isn't a game you want to play.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

True, no one can beat you in your GAME.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

The difference is that I don't play games. You should know this.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

How can I know?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Basic observation.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

But do you have proof that it's genuine?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

You tell me what you need, and I'll offer what I can.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

Proof that you haven't been playing a very subtle game.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

And what proof would be good enough for you?

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

You started the game, not me.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I merely asked you to correct your misstatements. You instead chose to double down, and drag it across multiple threads. Your problem, not mine, and I'm not doing it again here.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

The presumption is that I made misstatements. You're not arguing in good faith if you choose to go the route of 'well you're obviously wrong, I won't talk about this any further until you admit you're wrong.'

Seriously?

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

The best part is you have been wrong so many times and then you play the victim card. Typical Republican.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Haha, or as they say on Spartacus "Put coin in hand, or tongue be silenced!"