talkpolitics | The Right Wing's Idea of "Freedom"

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The Right Wing's Idea of "Freedom"

From Statepress:

Arizona House Bill 2625, authored by Majority Whip Debbie Lesko, R-Glendale, would permit employers to ask their employees for proof of medical prescription if they seek contraceptives for non-reproductive purposes, such as hormone control or acne treatment.

‘I believe we live in America. We don’t live in the Soviet Union,’ Lesko said. ‘So, government should not be telling the organizations or mom and pop employers to do something against their moral beliefs.’

Jezebel points out that Arizona is an “at will” state. This means that bosses in Arizona will be able to fire women for being depraved enough to take birth control pills to prevent pregnancy.

As we all know, what made the Soviet Union infamous were not the gulags, its treatment of dissidents, and the rigid control over the press, but the fact that women could take pills for the purpose of contraception without fear of losing their jobs over it.

Yes, here it is -- the right wing's idea of "freedom" is a society where a woman has to ask her boss' permission to use oral contraceptives.

Does anyone else find this more than a little weird?

Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Do you have a response on my asking you whether or not the AA, which you have said was 100% identical to Soviet collectivization, depopulating US states to the tune of a quarter of their population being butchered wholesale by the US Government? To be 100% identical to Soviet collectivization which is what you said, this is what's required, and why I stopped having any respect for you as a human being when you made the original statement.

I did so here (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1381463.html?view=110078295#t110078295).

Your link didn't work, so I'm going to assume this was accidental and not a confession that you really think FDR did deliberately starve to death millions of Americans during the New Deal, which is what Soviet Collectivization did, and what you said was 100% identical in both cases..

Well, it might work here (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1381463.html?thread=110078295#t110078295), or you can hit parent a few times. You replied to it with a tangent that I'm not bothering with.

In your own words, you said that it's 100% accurate that FDR engaged in wholesale collectivization by force of US agriculture. When did FDR's programs result like the USSR's in wholesale famine and the death of 25% of the population of US states?

You said it's 100% accurate that the USA engaged in a massive military build-up, which means you have never read a book on WWII history and how the USA got involved. There was the Neutrality Acts, then Cash and Carry, then Lend-Lease, then the Two-Ocean Navy Act. The USA only engaged in the build-up after the war, the Soviets did theirs before the war and built the largest, most modern army before the war. That is not 100% accurate a description of FDR's and Stalin's policies unless you were blatantly lying and/or had no idea what you're talking about.

Address these points and man up instead of returning to your lies and claiming for all to see that you have no ability to accept responsibility for your own words. It's not an irrelevant tangent, it's directly what you said. Did Sandwichwarrior's family, which fled Soviet mass murder through collectivization, come straight to another mass-murder regimen? Yes or no?

In your own words, you said that it's 100% accurate that FDR engaged in wholesale collectivization by force of US agriculture. When did FDR's programs result like the USSR's in wholesale famine and the death of 25% of the population of US states?

Why would it have to result in that?

You said it's 100% accurate that the USA engaged in a massive military build-up, which means you have never read a book on WWII history and how the USA got involved. There was the Neutrality Acts, then Cash and Carry, then Lend-Lease, then the Two-Ocean Navy Act. The USA only engaged in the build-up after the war, the Soviets did theirs before the war and built the largest, most modern army before the war. That is not 100% accurate a description of FDR's and Stalin's policies unless you were blatantly lying and/or had no idea what you're talking about.

I disagree. We were building up as early as 1939, if not earlier.

Address these points and man up instead of returning to your lies and claiming for all to see that you have no ability to accept responsibility for your own words. It's not an irrelevant tangent, it's directly what you said. Did Sandwichwarrior's family, which fled Soviet mass murder through collectivization, come straight to another mass-murder regimen? Yes or no?

Irony of ironies.

Because this is what Soviet collectivization was. No reputable scholar will deny that the USSR's idea of collectivization involved deliberately inducing famines to cause the deaths of millions of people. To claim the Agricultural Adjustment Agency as identical is 100% accurate means that the AAA conducted a murder of millions of American citizens covered up by the media. Your words, Comrade, not mine.

No we really weren't. The build-up "started" in 1940, and even then it was proceeding slowly and ad hoc, and there was no reason for Germany or Japan to fear it, or the UK ad USSR to notice it.

Yes, irony of ironies that I keep asking you to respond to your own statements and you refuse to do so even when I'm offering you a way out of the discussion.

I have responded to them. You just don't like the answers, so you have to disparage my name and lie about what I said.

You said "The Agriculture Adjustment Acts fill the void just fine for me."

Pardon me, but when did this lead to the precise things seen in Soviet collectivization?

http://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/111famine.html

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/coll.html

You said the two being the same is 100% accurate. Where did the AAA lead to these things noted from the Russian Archives themselves? My God, Jeff, what the Hell do you think the AAA was?

The AAA was an attempt by the federal government to centrally plan farming. Duh.

Except that you said it was 100% identical to Soviet collectivization, a process that was deliberately mass murderous and in actual fact could and did reach genocidal proportions.

I don't see a difference between central planning and central planning, no. That you're focused on results is your issue, and not my claim.

Obviously, as you have no idea what Central Planning is, or what you're talking about.

You just need to put on your 'lack of nuance' glasses. They're both a plan... by the government!

In a libertarian system there are less laws, that's why we had a libertarian system 150 years ago! There were less laws, then!

Don't forget the circular arguments! The free market, if put into place, would determine the fair price of goods because the free market would determine it!

I just find it hilarious that if he'd made this argument in the actual Soviet Union of collectivization the NVKD would have summarily had him shot after working him to death in the Gulag as a social deviationist. FDR's USA would have just put him in with the America Firster Crowd and listened to him up to 6 December 1941.

Why are libertarians incapable of nuance? The AAA is the same as the Soviet collectivization, because they're both central planning!

Income tax is the same as theft because in both cases something is being taken away from you!

Abortion is the same murder because in both cases you're taking a human life!

Someone buying all of the land around the town and not letting people cross it (not letting people leave their town) is the same as handcuffs!

World War II is the same as World War I because countries were fighting each other!

I agree jeff, this underlankers guy is obviously full of it. FDR = Stalin because they were both men, after all. Is he trying to deny that FDR was man? Honestly.

Why do yOu think Jeff should be killed?

When did I ever say anything of the sort? I said he's the one that claimed it's an 100% accurate comparison of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_Adjustment_Act and the Soviet Collectivization policy. He's too afraid to admit he's wrong on the Internet. How the flying FUCK did you get he should be killed anywhere from any of that?

I absolutely, solemnly, wholeheartedly affirm that I will never, ever think that disagreeing with someone on matters historical over the Internet is a reason they should be killed or threatened in any way. It's a digusting, immoral, illegal, puerile abuse of a discussion matter, and I in all manners, ways, and fashions disavow any statements that could be remotely attributed as such.

Probably the same way you got your claim.

You did say he's not human. Just like how Jeff didn't say FDR=Stalin.

Where did I say he wasn't human? When did I ever say that not-human = mandate to kill?

I noticed this one claim:

meaning the forcible collectivization of US farms, a massive military build-up and a system of centralized economic planning with mandated state quotas, and NKVD-led enforcement of said quotas.

Now, what I said was that they're "more similar than you're willing to admit." Where does this leave the rest?

Forced collectivization of US farms? The Agricultural Adjustment Acts fill that void fine for me.

And this is what the Soviet collectivization was:
http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Sorrow-Soviet-Collectivization-Terror-Famine/dp/0195051807

I will never, ever agree that the Agricultural Adjustment Act being claimed to be the same as this is 100% accurate. That you do leads me to think that I'm frankly entirely lost as to how it's remotely possible to claim this.

I repeat, did the USA engage in wholesale deliberate inducement of artificial famines in the 1930s?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The Right Wing's Idea of "Freedom"

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