ext_370466 ([identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] talkpolitics2013-09-07 06:55 pm
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An open letter from a dinosaur

Dear Progressives,

Turn-about being fair play, I figured that I'd write a mirrior of Bean's post But where to start?


A couple months back Johnathan Korman wrote an excellent post on the poles of american politics. In it was the following line ...the correct social order is natural but not effortless — without devotion to the correct social order, conservatives believe we devolve into barbarism.

Do you genuinely believe that if you'd been transported back to fifteenth-century London as a baby, you'd realize all on your own that witch-burning was wrong, slavery was wrong, that every sentient being ought to be in your circle of concern? If so I'd like to know why,because as far as I can tell Homo Sapiens today are no more mentally capable than the Homo Sapiens of 500 years ago. I assert that our current high quality of life has more to do with culture and technology than it does with any inherent superiority to those who came before us. The fact of the matter is that we live in a civil society where, for the most part, people raise their kids to obey the law, pay their taxes, and generally not kill each-other without a damn good reason. It is this state of civility that conservatives seek to conserve.

The majority of these conservation efforts focus on individual and family responsibilities/virtue. They operate on the theory that if you want innovation you need to reward innovation. If you want virtue reward virtue. If you want stable kids reward stable families, because barbarity is never more than a generation or two away. If you want good social order we must reward virtue and punish vice.

It is in this space that intent runs head-long into perceived intent, and I start to turn into my grandad...

Using anfalicious' recent example, I am simply flabbergasted that a "post-gendered society" is even a topic of discussion outside of science fiction. Feminism has moved from arguing that women should be treated equal and have the same rights as men, etc... To that that men and women should be interchangeable. I am expected ignore the fact that the burden of reproduction is carried disproportionately by the female of the species. I am expected to ignore the differences in biology. To ignore the different strengths and weaknesses of both and how they compliment each other. I am expected to be genderless. I am not therefore I am a misogynist.

Global warming is based on computer models that keep failing. Catastrophic predictions are constantly proven wrong and (surprise, surprise) the only solution ever proposed is higher taxes and greater regulatory powers. I suspect that a dog is being wagged therefore I am a "denier".

I don't want to live in a world of "Honor Killings" and medieval torture and I refuse to coddle or kow-tow to those that do therefore I am a Islamiphobe.

I oppose gun control therefore I want children to die.

I support voter ID laws therefore I am a Racist.

Fascist.

Terrorist.

Killer.

I could go on...

These are labels that have been applied to me by my so-called intellectual and moral "betters" in an effort to shut me up.

I am a dinosaur. Hear me roar.

[identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 12:51 am (UTC)(link)
I guess the actual measurements of global temperature can't stand up against an argument such as this. It was the lol that really sealed it.

[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:02 am (UTC)(link)
It kind of reminds me of how the whole "we're going to have stronger hurricanes" thing never came to pass, so they turned around and measured hurricanes a different way to prove it instead.

That warming may have slowed or stopped over the last 12 or so years doesn't necessarily disprove global warming. Saying that the models have been consistently off doesn't either. Unfortunately, talking climate change is barely worth it anymore.

[identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:26 am (UTC)(link)
Appeal to consensus is a logical fallacy.

99.8% of ancient philosophers had never heard of, nor less used, the current consensus model based upon public dissemination of findings, peer review and replication of results, so trying to equate the pigheadedness of ancient "natural philosophers" with the current science community is misguided, at best, and intellectually dishonest, at worst. But, of course, you already know that.

Your words display a misunderstanding of what "scientific consensus" means, and possibly what "logical fallacy" means.

[identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:28 am (UTC)(link)
IA. The measurements I'm referring to still show warming, just not nearly as much as predicted. The models need to be updated based on stuff we found out in the last decade and, in 10 years, will need to be updated with stuff we find in the next decade.

That said, no country has really done a whole lot to comply with the Kyoto treaties. The US has reduced our CO2 emissions but just because we switched to something cheaper than coal that turns out to be cleaner as well. So it's not like policy seems to be driven by these models.

[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:30 am (UTC)(link)
Well, I certainly wouldn't be citing (or "believing") Judith Curry as an "argument."

lol again.

[identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:32 am (UTC)(link)
I guess I'm anti-science.

[identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:38 am (UTC)(link)
If someone comes up to me and tells me that gravity is an illusion (and that we can all float if we believe very hard), that oxygen isn't actually needed for survival, that the sky is purple and that the stars in the sky are actually a carpet painted by invisible flying gnomes, I do not need to do more than "diametrically contradict" such a person. Such arguments are so wrong that they are "not even wrong. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong)" I have no duty to waste time trying to justify basic reality to those who refuse to accept it.

Climate change denial is such an argument.

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:42 am (UTC)(link)
The difference between Zardoz and LXG is the difference between a bad film and a mediocre film, some people love former, far fewer love the latter.

Besides, Sean wasn't done trying after Zardoz, he took the role to try and shake of his James Bond type casting.
Edited 2013-09-09 02:01 (UTC)

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:44 am (UTC)(link)
Agreed, but it doesn't make them any less of a bore.

Also, I didn't have time to complete the list.

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:46 am (UTC)(link)
1984 isn't a problem anymore, the Macintosh has been out for a while now.

[identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:49 am (UTC)(link)
The scientific consensus is that massive bodies attract other bodies with mass.

Since consensus is just a "logical fallacy", I expect to see you flying around, unassisted, outside my window by the end of the day.

Words have meanings, and you can't handwave proven facts, no matter how inconvenient they might be to your ideology or political allies, just by pretending that these words don't mean what they mean.

You want to run around disbelieving proven scientific facts? That's your right. But don't be surprised when people laugh at it and call you a "denier," or at the very least, intentionally willfully ignorant of said facts.

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:50 am (UTC)(link)
Funny I remember torturing being a neoconservative phenomenon with characters like Dick Chaney being so supportive of it. Of course the prison it takes place in is still open and it's interns still living in it. Maybe it's a problem that goes beyond petty party tit for tat.
Edited 2013-09-09 01:51 (UTC)

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:57 am (UTC)(link)
*scratches head* well purple is kind of blueish anyways, that is to say that it is in the range of "cool colors" and is at least half blue in it's truest color. And oxygen is only needed for survival for organisms that require it, which includes humans, and being humans we tend to anthropomorphisize everything so I'll give that one a pass.

[identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:58 am (UTC)(link)
Hey I have a dictionary!

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tizzy

:-)

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:59 am (UTC)(link)
There is a degree of criminality in any given race. Therefore, if someone is of one particular race, then they must be a criminal.

We have had whole threads based on that fallacy.

[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 01:59 am (UTC)(link)
LOL.

Edited 2013-09-09 02:02 (UTC)

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 02:05 am (UTC)(link)
He? Who?

[identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 02:16 am (UTC)(link)
You know I really would love the climate articles to be wrong about global warming, in the meantime I still would rather err on the side of caution and actually support clean energy and try to not pollute the air as much as I can. The worst that can happen is that I still drive my Yaris to work and not an Escalade, and then ride my bike to lunch, oh and my state is not under water.

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